** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 15 Apr 2019, 2:01pm

reohn2 wrote:The difference being that being a member state the UK would have influence on the direction the EU .........

Would we?
How can you predict the future?

I'm pessimistic about the UK remaining in the EU because I'm pessimistic about the future of the EU because it will morph into something more than it is now.

You can only tell me how it is NOW.
Mick F. Cornwall

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 15 Apr 2019, 2:02pm

Mick F wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:It's just unsubstantiated trash.
Citation or examples needed.
No citations or examples from me, just a guess.
A pessimistic guess of course, because I'm not optimistic about our future in the EU.

Maybe the Remainers are optimistic for its future and we Leavers are pessimistic about it.

We haven't done too badly out of membership so far,despite a corrupt,stupid and totally incompetent Westminster government these past ten years!
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 15 Apr 2019, 2:04pm

Yeah, I would love to see Carney banged up! So would Mervyn King. :lol:

Differing opinions on Sovereignty here, not allowed in the Superstate...

Al
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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 15 Apr 2019, 2:05pm

Too true regarding the shower in Westminster.
Sack the lot of them.
Bar them all from standing again, and have GE for a new lot. They can't be any worse.

Who's to say that we won't have a similar shower in charge in Brussels in the future?
In that event, sack them all too.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 15 Apr 2019, 2:11pm

Mick F wrote:
reohn2 wrote:The difference being that being a member state the UK would have influence on the direction the EU .........

Would we?

Yes as we have over the past 40 odd years we've been members.


How can you predict the future?

I cant and neither can you but what I do know is that as a member we have a seat at any and all negotiations of the future of the EU,out side of it we have none!


I'm pessimistic about the UK remaining in the EU because I'm pessimistic about the future of the EU because it will morph into something more than it is now..

If you can point me to some sound reasoning for your pessimism I like to hear it,without sound reasoning I'm afraid you lose the argument as your stance purely based on unfounded pessimism and bias,based on nothing substantial.
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby [XAP]Bob » 15 Apr 2019, 2:16pm

Mick F wrote:I don't know about anyone else on this forum, but I am an independent chap. I'm my own boss and I expect others to be like me too.
I have asked for advice on here. Whether I act on it or not is my decision, but I do listen/read it. Threads long enough will give contradictory advice anyway.




As for the rules of the EU, that is how it is now. That is how it is now with the rules as they are now.

Not eventually perhaps. Not the way it could be in the future. Who's to say?
If UK was about to lose its sovereignty to a United States of Europe we would have guess what?

A referendum! :shock: :lol:



And *that's* the time to ask the question, not now.

Why was this referendum called? It was called because Mr Cameron didn't want to lose a couple of MPs to UKIP.

To take a sexism example (because it's really easy). You don't leave a golf club because you think they might allow women to play in the future. You protest, vote against it, and then leave at the point when they decide to allow women to play despite your objections.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 15 Apr 2019, 2:20pm

al_yrpal wrote:Yeah, I would love to see Carney banged up! So would Mervyn King. :lol:

Differing opinions on Sovereignty here, not allowed in the Superstate...

Al

Have they broken any laws?

Now let's take a look at the leave campaign :? ,not a good view is it illegally funded,suggestions of £350million a week for the NHS,how it was going to be so easy,and how countries would be beating a path to our door to trade with us,sunny uplands with grazing unicorns,etc,etc.
So far,and we havent left yet,brexit has cost the UK almost £60billion,you got it right Al,you got it so right.So right in fact that every argument put forward by you and the other brexiters has been torn to shreds,noe,that's none of your arguments have stood upto scrutiny!
BTW which Super State is it you mean coz I can't see any in Europe.
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 15 Apr 2019, 2:22pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:And *that's* the time to ask the question, not now.

Why was this referendum called? It was called because Mr Cameron didn't want to lose a couple of MPs to UKIP.

To take a sexism example (because it's really easy). You don't leave a golf club because you think they might allow women to play in the future. You protest, vote against it, and then leave at the point when they decide to allow women to play despite your objections.


Nail,head,on!
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mr bajokoses » 15 Apr 2019, 2:25pm

reohn2 wrote:
Mick F wrote:.......As for the rules of the EU, that is how it is now. That is how it is now with the rules as they are now.

Not eventually perhaps. Not the way it could be in the future. Who's to say?

The difference being that being a member state the UK would have influence on the direction the EU takes,not being a maember makes us extremely vulnerable to our nearest and biggest trading market.


If UK was about to lose its sovereignty to a United States of Europe we would have guess what?

A referendum! :shock: :lol:

But one would think the Uk will have learned something from the present **** up and would implement any referendum to at require at least a 60% majority for a change to be valid.A clear and concise system of laws surround any referendum and for any illegality in the referendum process to be punishable by a mandatory ten year prison sentence for all parties involved.


The longer the brexit ****show goes on the harder it is to find any legitimacy in the 2016 referendum. The lies. The contradictory idea that brexit is turning out much more complex than many people thought, yet everyone knew exactly what they were voting for. The dodgy funding. The absence of checks and balances. The advisory status that means it cannot be legally challenged. The lack of a supermajority. The hidden motives of brexit leaders. The complete lack of any planning for a leave outcome. The running away of brexit's promoters. The right-wing talk of the 'will of the people'. The increase in hate crimes. The timing of it following years of austerity.

There is nothing legitimate about it. And yet it has acquired some kind of mythical status that the result may never be challenged, even three years later.

From the last few pages of this thread, it is clear that leave voters continue to deny the realities and continue to put their faith in the worst possible politicians like Rees-Mogg, Duncan Smith, Farage, Johnson, Raab. They continue to fail to engage with any of the arguments about the meaning of brexit. I would argue that these are the result of a complete lack of proper honesty and openness from the May government which is directly responsible for the creeping slowness of the increase in sentiment towards remaining in the EU.

Against this background it is impossible to see what another referendum would achieve in terms of settling the question of EU membership, impossible to think what the question might be on the ballot paper since there is no consensus over what brexit actually means, and impossible to take the risk of Farage and the right-wingers stepping up their hate campaign and delivering another impossibility and further public unrest and violence.

There's no way all the above can be turned around before the new deadline of 31 October - how appropriate it should be halloween. Eventually our government (not parliament - they are already doing their job) is going to have to face its responsibilities, come clean and tell the public the truth, and face down the dangerous and ridiculous brexit promoters.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mr bajokoses » 15 Apr 2019, 2:30pm

Mick F wrote:Too true regarding the shower in Westminster.
Sack the lot of them.
Bar them all from standing again, and have GE for a new lot. They can't be any worse.

Who's to say that we won't have a similar shower in charge in Brussels in the future?
In that event, sack them all too.


Be careful what you wish for, Mick.

Who's going to stand for election if you 'sack the lot of them'?

We've had a GE since the referendum, and the result was to remove May's mandate for a hard brexit.

Yet she acts as if she still has one.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 15 Apr 2019, 2:31pm

The serial purveyor of dodgy facts and assertions has spoken! :lol: Never mind, you will possibly get Corbyn soon and his Socialist paradise will give you something much worse to wail about. Skint Britain er kommt!
https://en.mercopress.com/2019/04/15/ma ... nd-of-2019 ..thats the way to do it!


Al
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mr bajokoses » 15 Apr 2019, 2:37pm

al_yrpal wrote:The serial purveyor of dodgy facts and assertions has spoken! :lol: Never mind, you will possibly get Corbyn soon and his Socialist paradise will give you something much worse to wail about. Skint Britain er kommt!
https://en.mercopress.com/2019/04/15/ma ... nd-of-2019 ..thats the way to do it!


Al


Maybe Al you could engage with some of the points, and put the counter argument to show how they are wrong?

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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 15 Apr 2019, 2:43pm

mr bajokoses wrote:From the last few pages of this thread, it is clear that leave voters continue to deny the realities and continue to put their faith in the worst possible politicians like Rees-Mogg, Duncan Smith, Farage, Johnson, Raab. They continue to fail to engage with any of the arguments about the meaning of brexit. I would argue that these are the result of a complete lack of proper honesty and openness from the May government which is directly responsible for the creeping slowness of the increase in sentiment towards remaining in the EU.
Clear?
Are you lumping in me with with all the leave voters?

Please don't.
I was asked the question, and I voted leave.
It had nothing whatsoever to do with faith of the politicians you site or their honesty (or lack of it).
I took - and still take - politician statements with a pinch of salt and ignored them.

I voted leave because I don't want to be in the EU.
No specific reason ............... as I've continued to state almost endlessly ................. just don't want to be in it.
I don't want to die in a ditch about this. It doesn't mean a fate worse than death to me to say in.
I was given the choice and chose my choice.

OUT.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mr bajokoses » 15 Apr 2019, 2:55pm

Mick F wrote:
mr bajokoses wrote:From the last few pages of this thread, it is clear that leave voters continue to deny the realities and continue to put their faith in the worst possible politicians like Rees-Mogg, Duncan Smith, Farage, Johnson, Raab. They continue to fail to engage with any of the arguments about the meaning of brexit. I would argue that these are the result of a complete lack of proper honesty and openness from the May government which is directly responsible for the creeping slowness of the increase in sentiment towards remaining in the EU.
Clear?
Are you lumping in me with with all the leave voters?

Please don't.
I was asked the question, and I voted leave.
It had nothing whatsoever to do with faith of the politicians you site or their honesty (or lack of it).
I took - and still take - politician statements with a pinch of salt and ignored them.

I voted leave because I don't want to be in the EU.
No specific reason ............... as I've continued to state almost endlessly ................. just don't want to be in it.
I don't want to die in a ditch about this. It doesn't mean a fate worse than death to me to say in.
I was given the choice and chose my choice.

OUT.


Thank you Mick. Which part of 'fail to engage with any of the arguments about the meaning of brexit' did I get wrong here?

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 15 Apr 2019, 3:08pm

al_yrpal wrote:The serial purveyor of dodgy facts and assertions has spoken! :lol: Never mind, you will possibly get Corbyn soon and his Socialist paradise will give you something much worse to wail about. Skint Britain er kommt!
https://en.mercopress.com/2019/04/15/ma ... nd-of-2019 ..thats the way to do it!


Al

We're already skint or hadn't you noticed?
88% of GDP and rising.

And that despite the ongoing austerity measures which are driving personal hardship amongst the less well off in society.
But by all means keep on sniggering.