** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
mercalia
Posts: 10553
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mercalia » 19 May 2019, 1:22pm

mjr wrote:
mercalia wrote: Mays GROSS error was to swallow hook line and sinker the EUs soln to the GFA that is only in the interests of the EU;

Meanwhile, in reality, the current backstop was a UK govt proposal.


The original backstop was Northern Ireland only - that would break the GFA so checkmate, have to include all of the UK. And once you have that you dont have Brexit anylonger....

PH
Posts: 7129
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PH » 19 May 2019, 1:44pm

Lance Dopestrong wrote:You generalise so much there that you venture into inaccuracy - Boris was one of the loudest mouths, and he was pretty hot for WTO and giving the EU the middle finger.

Either your memory is faulty, or you're as big a fantasist as Boris himself. Here he is in his own words:
What we want is for Britain to be like many other countries in having free-trade access to the territory covered by the Single Market – but not to be subject to the vast, growing and politically-driven empire of EU law.
http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/bor ... leave.html

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 45577
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 19 May 2019, 3:56pm

belgiangoth wrote:
Mick F wrote:I'm sort of of a slightly different opinion about the Ireland issue.
It's not a UK problem after we leave, it's an EU problem.
It's their external border.

Moot point, I agree, but it's not just a UK issue but a joint one and I would like to think they it would be the EU's job to sort it like they've sorted all their other external borders.

One of the big pro Brexit arguments is controlling immigration. The eu will be okay with an open border in Ireland which will allow unchecked immigration. It won’t be used for mass untariffed trade, which is the eu’s issue.
In my opinion it is very much a U.K. problem
Not in my opinion.

It's an EU problem, just like their other border problems.
Mick F. Cornwall

thirdcrank
Posts: 28648
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby thirdcrank » 19 May 2019, 4:02pm

Mick F wrote:
belgiangoth wrote:
Mick F wrote:I'm sort of of a slightly different opinion about the Ireland issue.
It's not a UK problem after we leave, it's an EU problem.
It's their external border.

Moot point, I agree, but it's not just a UK issue but a joint one and I would like to think they it would be the EU's job to sort it like they've sorted all their other external borders.

One of the big pro Brexit arguments is controlling immigration. The eu will be okay with an open border in Ireland which will allow unchecked immigration. It won’t be used for mass untariffed trade, which is the eu’s issue.
In my opinion it is very much a U.K. problem
Not in my opinion.

It's an EU problem, just like their other border problems.


:?

pete75
Posts: 11193
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 19 May 2019, 5:05pm

Mick F wrote:
belgiangoth wrote:
Mick F wrote:I'm sort of of a slightly different opinion about the Ireland issue.
It's not a UK problem after we leave, it's an EU problem.
It's their external border.

Moot point, I agree, but it's not just a UK issue but a joint one and I would like to think they it would be the EU's job to sort it like they've sorted all their other external borders.

One of the big pro Brexit arguments is controlling immigration. The eu will be okay with an open border in Ireland which will allow unchecked immigration. It won’t be used for mass untariffed trade, which is the eu’s issue.
In my opinion it is very much a U.K. problem
Not in my opinion.

It's an EU problem, just like their other border problems.


If the GFA is affected to such an extent that the "troubles" restart in Northern Ireland and maybe associated bombings in England it will be a UK problem.

mr bajokoses
Posts: 512
Joined: 13 Dec 2007, 5:19pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mr bajokoses » 19 May 2019, 5:10pm

If Boris Johnson achieves his life ambition of becoming PM it'll be interesting to see what his solution is to the Irish border issue.

I believe this is the rock that will eventually sink brexit, and with it every politician who tries to implement it.

mercalia
Posts: 10553
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mercalia » 19 May 2019, 5:25pm

mr bajokoses wrote:If Boris Johnson achieves his life ambition of becoming PM it'll be interesting to see what his solution is to the Irish border issue.

I believe this is the rock that will eventually sink brexit, and with it every politician who tries to implement it.


he will suggest that Southern Ireland becomes part of the British Empire again? Why not he will say, they speak English dont they?

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 45577
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 19 May 2019, 5:48pm

TC:
You picked up on my inconsistency there! :oops:
I reckon that the EU have borders. They are in control of those borders as they are THEIR borders.
The NI border with them is just the same as all their other borders but it's of UK interest in that border.

We have an interest, but it's THEIR border to sort out.
They have other EU land borders. Sort it!
Mick F. Cornwall

roubaixtuesday
Posts: 1899
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 19 May 2019, 5:58pm

Mick F wrote:
belgiangoth wrote:
Mick F wrote:I'm sort of of a slightly different opinion about the Ireland issue.
It's not a UK problem after we leave, it's an EU problem.
It's their external border.

Moot point, I agree, but it's not just a UK issue but a joint one and I would like to think they it would be the EU's job to sort it like they've sorted all their other external borders.

One of the big pro Brexit arguments is controlling immigration. The eu will be okay with an open border in Ireland which will allow unchecked immigration. It won’t be used for mass untariffed trade, which is the eu’s issue.
In my opinion it is very much a U.K. problem
Not in my opinion.

It's an EU problem, just like their other border problems.


Brexiters want to impose controls across a border now completely open and over which thousands of lives have been recently lost.

And you casually opine this is the EU's problem.

mercalia
Posts: 10553
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mercalia » 19 May 2019, 7:04pm

From the BBC

But in her Sunday Times piece, Mrs May said she will "not be simply asking MPs to think again" on the same deal that they have repeatedly rejected - but on "an improved packaged of measures that I believe can win new support".

The PM said she wanted MPs to consider the new deal "with fresh pairs of eyes - and to give it their support".


so asking MPs to think again is fine but asking the electorate would be a betrayal and unacceptable? Make up your mind May. It seems that the politcal establlishment holds the electorate in contempt as too simple minded?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48323522
Last edited by mercalia on 19 May 2019, 7:37pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 45577
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 19 May 2019, 7:06pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:Brexiters want to impose controls across a border now completely open and over which thousands of lives have been recently lost.
And you casually opine this is the EU's problem.
One:
Not all people in favour of leaving the EU want to "impose controls".
Two:
I'm not casually opinionising anything.

I'm saying that the borders of the EU are the EUs problem.
Obviously, the NI problems are a UK/Ireland problem as well.

It's the EU border ........... and not without issues for us in GB and NI.
Mick F. Cornwall

roubaixtuesday
Posts: 1899
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 19 May 2019, 7:10pm

Mick F wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:Brexiters want to impose controls across a border now completely open and over which thousands of lives have been recently lost.
And you casually opine this is the EU's problem.
One:
Not all people in favour of leaving the EU want to "impose controls".
Two:
I'm not casually opinionising anything.

I'm saying that the borders of the EU are the EUs problem.
Obviously, the NI problems are a UK/Ireland problem as well.

It's the EU border ........... and not without issues for us in GB and NI.


Please explain how it is possible to "take back control" of our borders without controls.

mercalia
Posts: 10553
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mercalia » 19 May 2019, 9:57pm

So Jacob Rees-Mogg has written a book

, Sandbrook’s review does offer a silver lining to those who find him objectionable. “Before I started, the prospect of Rees-Mogg in Downing Street struck me as a ridiculous idea,” he wrote. “But if this is what it takes to stop him writing another book, then I think we should seriously consider paying the price.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ed-britain

reohn2
Posts: 34686
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 19 May 2019, 10:28pm

mercalia wrote:So Jacob Rees-Mogg has written a book

, Sandbrook’s review does offer a silver lining to those who find him objectionable. “Before I started, the prospect of Rees-Mogg in Downing Street struck me as a ridiculous idea,” he wrote. “But if this is what it takes to stop him writing another book, then I think we should seriously consider paying the price.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ed-britain

Read the article and thought 'why am I not surprised in the least bit'
It's staggering that people such as he have any standing in modern day politics,but unfortunately they do :(
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

mercalia
Posts: 10553
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mercalia » 20 May 2019, 7:32am

reohn2 wrote:
mercalia wrote:So Jacob Rees-Mogg has written a book

, Sandbrook’s review does offer a silver lining to those who find him objectionable. “Before I started, the prospect of Rees-Mogg in Downing Street struck me as a ridiculous idea,” he wrote. “But if this is what it takes to stop him writing another book, then I think we should seriously consider paying the price.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ed-britain

Read the article and thought 'why am I not surprised in the least bit'
It's staggering that people such as he have any standing in modern day politics,but unfortunately they do :(


He was inspired by this book?
https://mashable.com/2016/08/27/abc-for ... urope=true