** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 28 May 2019, 10:17am

Mick F wrote:
Mick F wrote:Goodness knows the truth.
You lot seem to know the truth, or at least you think you know the truth.

It all depends on your point of view.
That's what the article on R4 Today programme was saying.

There are opinions and there are facts. Sometimes the two things are blurred, but sometimes it is plain that the opinions have no basis in fact. There's been a lot more of that sort from the Brexit camps. It's why Farage shouts over anyone who tries to question him.

mercalia
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mercalia » 28 May 2019, 10:24am

we keep on hearing politicians say that they have to repect the 2016 referendum and leave the EU. Well I would say that Parliament have already respected the referendum in activating article 50, got a deal with the EU that has been rejected by Parliament for very good reasons and cannot agree a compromise. Parliament have done all they can to "respect" the referendum ( that was always only advisory anyway ) I dont see that "respecting" the referendum means jumping off a cliff to certain death? So why oh why aint politicians following this tack and going back to the leavers and say it aint possible, we tried , oh we tried but the fact that nearly half the country dont want to leave any way exludes jumping off the cliff so sorry leavers we have to call the whole thing off?

or are leavers just too bigotted and stupid to appreciate such a line of thought? and want to jump off the cliff and take every one else with them? they may be lemmings but remainers aint.
Last edited by mercalia on 28 May 2019, 10:28am, edited 1 time in total.

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 28 May 2019, 10:27am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
The waters just got muddier.
No Deal cliff edge.
Stop leave political suicide.
Tories are saying negotiate a different deal, that's what we've been doing all along, Stalemate.
Labour as per usual won't answer the question, to them it's GE in a vain attempt to grip power, or Let the people decide.

Meanwhile the clock ticks on.

And the creek looks ever more shi**ier and we've finally lost the plot,err sorry I mean paddle.......
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reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 28 May 2019, 10:27am

bovlomov wrote:
Mick F wrote:
Mick F wrote:Goodness knows the truth.
You lot seem to know the truth, or at least you think you know the truth.

It all depends on your point of view.
That's what the article on R4 Today programme was saying.

There are opinions and there are facts. Sometimes the two things are blurred, but sometimes it is plain that the opinions have no basis in fact. There's been a lot more of that sort from the Brexit camps. It's why Farage shouts over anyone who tries to question him.

:wink:
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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 28 May 2019, 10:32am

Mick F wrote:Goodness knows the truth.
You lot seem to know the truth, or at least you think you know the truth.


What is truth?
It's very very difficult to ascertain it.
Facts are too, when it's a complicated subject full of different ways at looking at "facts" and "truth".
Mick F. Cornwall

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Paulatic
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Paulatic » 28 May 2019, 10:46am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,

Tories are saying negotiate a different deal, that's what we've been doing all along, Stalemate.
.

Meanwhile the clock ticks on.


They can’t. It has to be Mays deal on no deal. There is a clause in the extension agreement
CE81444D-022B-4D8A-8AE5-63B3EEFEA2EC.jpeg
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reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 28 May 2019, 10:48am

Mick F wrote:
Mick F wrote:Goodness knows the truth.
You lot seem to know the truth, or at least you think you know the truth.


What is truth?
It's very very difficult to ascertain it.
Facts are too, when it's a complicated subject full of different ways at looking at "facts" and "truth".

Truth in such matters isn't an absolute,but degrees of better or worse for the majority.
IMO(you knew it was coming didn't you :wink: )the overwhelming probability for the greater good of the majority of the population and the fabric of the country staying in the EU is for the best.
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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 28 May 2019, 10:53am

Mick F wrote:
Mick F wrote:Goodness knows the truth.
You lot seem to know the truth, or at least you think you know the truth.


What is truth?
It's very very difficult to ascertain it.
Facts are too, when it's a complicated subject full of different ways at looking at "facts" and "truth".

Yes, of course it isn't always easy. That's different from saying that there is no objective truth, and words can mean whatever we want them to mean. This is where we are now, and I think it is very dangerous.

Things have been said about tariffs that bear no relation to the truth, or even to primary school mathematics. You could say it's simply a different way of looking at the truth. I'd say it was dangerous nonsense. Would you want your bike to be designed by someone who couldn't work out percentages? I don't want our country to be run by them.

This idea that everyone is lying all the time, it is corrosive and empowers the biggest liars of all.
Last edited by bovlomov on 28 May 2019, 10:57am, edited 1 time in total.

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 28 May 2019, 10:56am

bovlomov wrote:
Mick F wrote:
Mick F wrote:Goodness knows the truth.
You lot seem to know the truth, or at least you think you know the truth.


What is truth?
It's very very difficult to ascertain it.
Facts are too, when it's a complicated subject full of different ways at looking at "facts" and "truth".

Yes, of course it isn't always easy. That's different from saying that there is no objective truth, and words can mean whatever we want them to mean. This is where we are now, and I think it is very dangerous.

Things have been said about tariffs that bear no relation to the truth, or even to primary school mathematics. You could say it's simply a different way of looking at the truth. I'd say it was dangerous nonsense. Would you want you bike to be designed by someone who couldn't work out percentages? I don't want our country to be run by them.

This idea that everyone is lying all the time, it is corrosive and empowers the biggest liars of all.

So right and tuthful :wink: .
I'm sick of being lied to by smiling slimeballs with their fingers in the till.
Last edited by reohn2 on 28 May 2019, 2:13pm, edited 2 times in total.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 28 May 2019, 10:57am

Hi,
Paulatic wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,

Tories are saying negotiate a different deal, that's what we've been doing all along, Stalemate.
.

Meanwhile the clock ticks on.


They can’t. It has to be Mays deal on no deal. There is a clause in the extension agreement
CE81444D-022B-4D8A-8AE5-63B3EEFEA2EC.jpeg

Ok, I only said what they are saying (Tories) but I should of said in another line.............EU's computer says NO! :(
I cant see a way forward that will satisfy all concerned, legal or not, like what others are saying here.
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mr bajokoses
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mr bajokoses » 28 May 2019, 11:08am

bovlomov wrote:This idea that everyone is lying all the time, it is corrosive and empowers the biggest liars of all.


This ^^^.

It is essential to see that the liars are in a minority.

Brexit promoters lied, big time, and as a result won the referendum.

Tory and Labour party leadership continues to lie, big time, as they seem to think the public cannot accept honesty - maybe they're right although the numbers are moving inexorably against them.

It says something that the only candidates for Tory leadership who stand a chance of 'success' are the lying ones. Rory Stewart's attempt will get nowhere. The Tory party membership seems to favour comforting lies over uncomfortable truth.

There are far fewer outright liars in the backbenches. Collectively they feel much less compulsion to keep lying. Hence, voting down May's awful deal, though it is the only deal available it is obvious to the honest politicians it is far inferior to EU membership.

Calls for the whole of parliament to be sacked are very disingenuous. The problem is not parliament.

Liars will always be caught out in the end.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 28 May 2019, 11:13am

Mick F wrote:
Mick F wrote:Goodness knows the truth.
You lot seem to know the truth, or at least you think you know the truth.


What is truth?
It's very very difficult to ascertain it.
Facts are too, when it's a complicated subject full of different ways at looking at "facts" and "truth".

You tell us?
What the negative aspects of being a member of the EU have been?
Either as personal anecdote or for the country as a whole?
For surely there must be some truth in your dearly held belief?
Or?

merseymouth
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby merseymouth » 28 May 2019, 12:03pm

Hi again, Yet again we have remainers demanding answers to their loaded, leading questions. Now summed up with us having to explain potentially negative points about staying in the E.U.?
Well one thing is certain, if we pull Article 50, shout we're staying we will get a very rough reception! Pariahs in the club!
But I want to leave for much the same sort of reasons why I have never desired to be a member of a Masonic Lodge, Oddfellows, R.A.O.B et al, not fitting with the inner me.
I shouldn't have to suffer being poked & prodded into compliance, just accept that fact.
As a cyclist I prefer to ride tricycles, for many reasons, so why should I be compelled to ride falling over machines just because that is the supposed norm? Dare to be an individual. IGICB MM

PDQ Mobile
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 28 May 2019, 12:17pm

merseymouth wrote:Hi again, Yet again we have remainers demanding answers to their loaded, leading questions. Now summed up with us having to explain potentially negative points about staying in the E.U.?
Well one thing is certain, if we pull Article 50, shout we're staying we will get a very rough reception! Pariahs in the club!
But I want to leave for much the same sort of reasons why I have never desired to be a member of a Masonic Lodge, Oddfellows, R.A.O.B et al, not fitting with the inner me.
I shouldn't have to suffer being poked & prodded into compliance, just accept that fact.
As a cyclist I prefer to ride tricycles, for many reasons, so why should I be compelled to ride falling over machines just because that is the supposed norm? Dare to be an individual. IGICB MM

There is nothing leading or loaded about my question to Mick.
It is he that is questioning the truth and I am merely seeking clarity.

The EU as an entity bears no resemblance to your quoted organizations.

Indeed why don't you tell us the answer to the simple question I posed to Mick?
For it is my deeply held believe that you have actually benefitted personally from your being a citizen though doubtless you will disagree.

The question is fair.
And why would anyone wish to destroy something that has had no negative impact upon them?
It is from my POV the most inexplicable thing about the whole farce.

What bicycle one rides seems to be entirely beyond any sensible relevance., if I may say so.
Though the EU always insists on cycle facilities on any new transport facilities it helps to fund.
It has been more cyclist friendly than our own domestic Govts, by and large. Ask the Daily Mail!

mercalia
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mercalia » 28 May 2019, 12:49pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:
Mick F wrote:
Mick F wrote:Goodness knows the truth.
You lot seem to know the truth, or at least you think you know the truth.


What is truth?
It's very very difficult to ascertain it.
Facts are too, when it's a complicated subject full of different ways at looking at "facts" and "truth".

You tell us?
What the negative aspects of being a member of the EU have been?
Either as personal anecdote or for the country as a whole?
For surely there must be some truth in your dearly held belief?
Or?


One positve aspect is we dont need to employ an army of people to negotiate trade deals or deal with the likes of Capitalist-Trumped-US of A? Even the US of A cant bully the EU?