** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 18 Jun 2019, 3:29pm

PH wrote:
Mick F wrote:We voted. End of story ...................... :wink:

Like the drunk at the party who's decided to leave but can't find the door, by the time they do so, they might be sober enough to decide to go back to the bar instead.
I'm reminded of the hoary (and rather sexist) old joke attributed (probably apocryphally) to Churchill. He was accosted in the lobby by a female MP with the words "Sir, you are drunk!". Churchill replied "Madam, you are ugly - but tomorrow I shall be sober".

I just hope that many of the hardline Brex**iteers are more like Churchill when drunk, than like the less-than-attractive lady MP. I.e. that they'll 'sober up' the next morning and have a 'Road to Damascus' moment...

A forlorn hope maybe... :(
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kwackers
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 18 Jun 2019, 3:35pm

661-Pete wrote:I just hope that many of the hardline Brex**iteers are more like Churchill when drunk, than like the less-than-attractive lady MP. I.e. that they'll 'sober up' the next morning and have a 'Road to Damascus' moment...

A forlorn hope maybe... :(

Forlorn indeed.
Brexitears are currently doubling down.

Best you can hope for is buyers remorse when they open their fetid prize.

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 18 Jun 2019, 3:40pm

kwackers wrote:
reohn2 wrote:All of which goes to show,as if we didn't know already,the Tory party membership really is plastered!

Given some of the rabid brexitism I come across online I can't say I'm too surprised that they want it no matter what.

Lunacy knows no bounds where Brexit is concerned :roll:

The only bit I don't get is why it's more preferable to them for Scotland to leave the union than N.I.
How does that make sense?
As far as I'm concerned if the Irish & N.I consensus is reunification then they should go for it. If Scotland left I'd be a bit sad though

Socialism in Scotland is like drinking clear spring water to a Tory,they'd rather spit it out and carry on drinking their own home brewed concoction of gut rot White Lightening cider mixed with effluent,declaring it good as their intestines putrify and fall out of their bottoms.
Enough of them also think the same of ridding the UK of NI is also good,as the DUP aren't considered rightwing enough for modernist Tory thinkology :lol:

I wonder if it's simply because the of the E.U's stance. Bloody mindedness does seem to be a big part of brexit.

Bloody mindedness is every part of Brexit.
A pit pony with and ice cream cone super glued to it's head running amok on an old colliery slagheap,in the depths of winter looks rather like a unicorn on the sunny uplands of extremism to the majority of Tory members :wink:
Last edited by reohn2 on 18 Jun 2019, 3:43pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 18 Jun 2019, 3:41pm

661-Pete wrote:
PH wrote:
Mick F wrote:We voted. End of story ...................... :wink:

Like the drunk at the party who's decided to leave but can't find the door, by the time they do so, they might be sober enough to decide to go back to the bar instead.
I'm reminded of the hoary (and rather sexist) old joke attributed (probably apocryphally) to Churchill. He was accosted in the lobby by a female MP with the words "Sir, you are drunk!". Churchill replied "Madam, you are ugly - but tomorrow I shall be sober".

I just hope that many of the hardline Brex**iteers are more like Churchill when drunk, than like the less-than-attractive lady MP. I.e. that they'll 'sober up' the next morning and have a 'Road to Damascus' moment...

A forlorn hope maybe... :(

The sad difference is that at least Churchill was aware he was drunk.
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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 18 Jun 2019, 3:56pm

kwackers wrote:Forlorn indeed.
Brexitears are currently doubling down.

Best you can hope for is buyers remorse when they open their fetid prize.
Someone, a little while back, posted something about Remainers "hoping Brex**it would be a disaster, so that they can say I told you so!"

I don't think along those lines. Nor I hope do the vast majority of Remainers. I don't want any disaster - who does?
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 18 Jun 2019, 4:08pm

661-Pete wrote:So, we have a General Election, say. Three (or four or five) years down the line, public opinion has changed. So we should have another GE then? And your answer to that is also "So what?"
Sorry Pete, I missed this.

I meant "so what" in the manner of normality.
We do indeed have regular general elections and often the country votes the opposite way to the last time.

So what if the country's demographics have changed since the referendum? Was it not expected? I certainly expected it. Didn't you?

We don't and won't have regular reappraisals of Brexit. If we had, we'd be in and then out through the decades alternating as public opinion changes.

We were asked in 2016, and the country voted. It was a once in a lifetime vote, not a vote to be repeated every few years. Demographics and opinions change. So what? It's normal that they do!
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 18 Jun 2019, 4:16pm

Mick F wrote:We were asked in 2016, and the country voted. It was a once in a lifetime vote, not a vote to be repeated every few years. Demographics and opinions change. So what? It's normal that they do!


In case you hadn't noticed, we're a parliamentary democracy. Indeed, the whole point of Brexit was supposedly to restore the sovereignty of parliament.

In the words of David Davis "'If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy."

And as Nigel Farage put it pre-referendum: "'In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way"

*If* people who want another vote can persuade MPs to vote for it then there should be one. That's democracy.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 18 Jun 2019, 4:26pm

661-Pete wrote:
kwackers wrote:Forlorn indeed.
Brexitears are currently doubling down.

Best you can hope for is buyers remorse when they open their fetid prize.
Someone, a little while back, posted something about Remainers "hoping Brex**it would be a disaster, so that they can say I told you so!"

I don't think along those lines. Nor I hope do the vast majority of Remainers. I don't want any disaster - who does?

I think you misunderstand.

Want? No. Getting? Yes.

When someone screws up I'm all for them owning the problem.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mjr » 18 Jun 2019, 4:44pm

Mick F wrote:We don't and won't have regular reappraisals of Brexit. If we had, we'd be in and then out through the decades alternating as public opinion changes.

Would we? In 1975, it was 67-33 for remaining and we don't have referendum results for the intervening, but a succession of pro-Europeans (Thatcher, Major, Blair) were elected, while Europhobes (Foot, Duncan Smith, Brown) lost elections, which doesn't really suggest public support for EU membership has been wavering. According to opinion polls, Leave had a majority for a brief window of 2016 and 2017 and have lost it again now that Leave politicians have revealed how clueless they are.

I can see why Leavers are so desperate to avoid the "Final Say" referendum that Rees-Mogg and friends used to advocate: it would result in a final No to leaving.
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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 18 Jun 2019, 4:56pm

Mick F wrote:We were asked in 2016, and the country voted. It was a once in a lifetime vote, not a vote to be repeated every few years. Demographics and opinions change. So what? It's normal that they do!
Yeah - and we all know why we were 'asked' in 2016. It was because Cameron was blackmailed into offering the referendum, as a way of fending off potential defectors from his party to the kippers.

Does that make it an honest vote?

And during the campaign we were bombarded with lies - from both sides of the argument, but predominantly from the Brexit side. That bus!

Does that make it an honest vote?

All I ask is that we put right, that grievous wrong inflicted upon us in 2016...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mercalia » 18 Jun 2019, 5:21pm

Brexit-eers are frightened of another referendum, as being undemocratic, they know in their hearts that if people were asked again then many people would change their mind after seeing all the trouble it will cause, that many brexit-eers will be dead by now and their vote dont count anymore, and there will be lots of new young voters who see the EU in a different light. All these arguments that a 2nd ref would damage democracy is just MPs playing to their leave constituents, they surly dont believe the rot they are spewing, they are just cowards fearful for their jobs, knowing they wont be able to get such a cushy job elsewhere?

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 18 Jun 2019, 6:09pm

Hi,
mercalia wrote:Brexit-eers are frightened of another referendum, as being undemocratic, they know in their hearts that if people were asked again then many people would change their mind after seeing all the trouble it will cause, that many brexit-eers will be dead by now and their vote dont count anymore, and there will be lots of new young voters who see the EU in a different light. All these arguments that a 2nd ref would damage democracy is just MPs playing to their leave constituents, they surly dont believe the rot they are spewing, they are just cowards fearful for their jobs, knowing they wont be able to get such a cushy job elsewhere?


Back to that old chesnut!
The dead cant vote and the newly enlisted are all on the same mind?
So you know meet and can tell us that brexit-teers have changed there minds, I have not.

Where can you find in these posts that remainers are all off the same mind still?

No one can, its crystal ball gazing again.

We all wish and I even dream, but waking I find I am still getting older and ugly too :mrgreen:
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 18 Jun 2019, 7:06pm

Mick F wrote:We were asked in 2016, and the country voted. It was a once in a lifetime vote, not a vote to be repeated every few years. Demographics and opinions change. So what? It's normal that they do!


If that really was the case then no one old enough to have voted in the 1975 referendum should have been allowed to vote in 2016.

If the Brexit party ever won a general election their mantra would be the people have spoken, it's undemocratic to have another vote so we won't bother with any more elections. I'd bet most of the people who vote for them would be happy with that.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 18 Jun 2019, 7:52pm

pete75 wrote: I'd bet most of the people who vote for them would be happy with that.

Yes, of course they would. Who wouldn't support a party that promises to restore national pride and guarantees that ordinary hardworking folk will be better off? Liberal elites, that's who!

When it all goes wrong, Brexit supporters can blame an ever growing band of traitors, until there's no one left to blame and they turn on each other.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 18 Jun 2019, 8:16pm

bovlomov wrote:
pete75 wrote: I'd bet most of the people who vote for them would be happy with that.

Yes, of course they would. Who wouldn't support a party that promises to restore national pride and guarantees that ordinary hardworking folk will be better off? Liberal elites, that's who!

When it all goes wrong, Brexit supporters can blame an ever growing band of traitors, until there's no one left to blame and they turn on each other.

A recent yougov survey of Tory party members showed 63% are prepared to accept Scottish independence as the price of Brexit, 59% the same about a united Ireland and 61% would accept serious damage to the UK economy. It seems they don't care what the cost of Brexit is.

Of course a united Ireland would let the rest of May's deal go through so it may well be the best option for Brexit. Maybe it's Boris Johnson's plan.