** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
PDQ Mobile
Posts: 2647
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 25 Jun 2019, 1:29pm

merseymouth wrote:Hi PDQ Mobile, "Citation"? That's what you get from the cops for parking by a "Fire Plug"!
If you mean source? Try Daily Telegraph, Financial Pages, 25th June 2019!
So with that stated is everything still trash? Not everything that the E.U. does is nice & beneficial for member states! IGICB MM

yo Bovimov, or you could say that certain folk with power in the E.U. have their own agenda, which may actually be in conflict with the interests of the individual countries?


I shall look at it when I get a moment.
Unless there's a paywall or similar.

I can find nothing on any Swiss media, that is why I asked.

The Telegraph IMHO is not even handed in this at all.
It has been almost rabid in it's drive for Brexit.
I used to read it long ago.

Edit.
Ps. I can't find it on the online "money" page,
Is that where you meant?
Perhaps you could paste the link?

It is a citation as in citing one's source.
Trump's America seems nearer than I thought!
Last edited by PDQ Mobile on 25 Jun 2019, 1:37pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
bovlomov
Posts: 3816
Joined: 5 Apr 2007, 7:45am
Contact:

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 25 Jun 2019, 1:30pm

merseymouth wrote:yo Bovimov, or you could say that certain folk with power in the E.U. have their own agenda, which may actually be in conflict with the interests of the individual countries?

Yes, I'm sure that's true. And there are certain folk with power in the UK that have their own agenda, which is in conflict with their own country.

The question is: how is power managed? To what extent is power abused? My view is that abuses of power happen within the EU, and that they are being managed to some degree. It's a long way from perfect. Abuse of power in the UK is happening before our eyes, and there's little sign of the abuse being recognised - still less managed.

Oldjohnw
Posts: 1259
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Oldjohnw » 25 Jun 2019, 1:32pm

merseymouth wrote:Hi PDQ Mobile, "Citation"? That's what you get from the cops for parking by a "Fire Plug"!
If you mean source? Try Daily Telegraph, Financial Pages, 25th June 2019!
So with that stated is everything still trash? Not everything that the E.U. does is nice & beneficial for member states! IGICB MM

yo Bovimov, or you could say that certain folk with power in the E.U. have their own agenda, which may actually be in conflict with the interests of the individual countries?



Since I can't access this perhaps you might give a fuller quotation, please.

Many thanks.
John

Cycling and recycling

slowster
Posts: 728
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby slowster » 25 Jun 2019, 1:36pm

merseymouth wrote:Hi PDQ Mobile, "Citation"? That's what you get from the cops for parking by a "Fire Plug"!
If you mean source? Try Daily Telegraph, Financial Pages, 25th June 2019!
So with that stated is everything still trash? Not everything that the E.U. does is nice & beneficial for member states!

Switzerland is not a member state. It's a country which wants a relationship with the EU that gives it many of the benefits of being a member. To get that it has to negotiate with the EU and to accept some things which it doesn't like (especially freedom of movement given the very high percentage of foreigners it has in the country).
merseymouth wrote:you could say that certain folk with power in the E.U. have their own agenda, which may actually be in conflict with the interests of the individual countries?

It certainly is likely to conflict with some of the interests of non-member states that want a trade deal with it; also known as "not having it all your own way" (see also "negotiation" and "bargaining power").

PDQ Mobile
Posts: 2647
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 25 Jun 2019, 1:44pm

^^^+1.
An accurate assessment IMV

User avatar
RickH
Posts: 4367
Joined: 5 Mar 2012, 6:39pm
Location: Horwich, Lancs.

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby RickH » 25 Jun 2019, 2:06pm

This seems to be the article (although I can't see it all without registering) - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... escalates/

The European Commission refused to grant Swiss stock exchanges access after its patience ran out during negotiations over a long-delayed partnership treaty.

“Equivalence”, the system of regulatory recognition used to govern access for financial services in non-EU countries, will now lapse on July 1.

In retaliation Bern said it would withdraw recognition from trading venues in the EU from July 1 to "protect the Swiss stock exchange infrastructure in the event of non-extension."


As Slowster says, they have to negotiate - just like the UK will if Brexit actually happens.

PDQ Mobile
Posts: 2647
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 25 Jun 2019, 2:16pm

^^
Thank you. I can only read what you have quoted. The full article is ghosted out.

The EU is, I think,cheesed off with losing corporate tax revenue to Switzerland.

The Swiss move it would seem is in retaliation.
That is what will happen if we leave with no deal. Expensive (for both sides) conflicting interests.
I still can't see it on any Swiss media though.
I'll look again later.

slowster
Posts: 728
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby slowster » 25 Jun 2019, 2:27pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:Thank you. I can only read what you have quoted. The full article is ghosted out.

I don't know if it contains as much detail as the Telegraph article, but this is Reuters' article.

Somehow, even though Switzerland has taken this step in response to the EU's action, I don't think the Swiss will expect the EU to give in and I doubt they are saying to themselves "They need us more than we need them".
Last edited by slowster on 25 Jun 2019, 2:55pm, edited 1 time in total.

PDQ Mobile
Posts: 2647
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 25 Jun 2019, 2:29pm

^^
Again thank you.
We will see who blinks first then I guess!!

Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 16826
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Vorpal » 25 Jun 2019, 2:59pm

We talked about this a few months ago, as well. That discussion was also started by MM.

edited. sorry the first link was the wrong post this is the right one viewtopic.php?f=15&t=108977&hilit=swiss&start=13110#p1336333
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

merseymouth
Posts: 845
Joined: 23 Jan 2011, 11:16am

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby merseymouth » 25 Jun 2019, 5:20pm

hello again playmates :D , "Paywalls"? I don't know about them, but my local newsagent lets me have a copy for £2, or if you subscribe for the paper it will cost £1-60p.
The Swiss item is page one of today's business section!
The Irish issue is on page 5 of main paper. You can even get copies of such items delivered to your home by young folk on cycles, help the budding generation.
The E.U. currently has numerous treaties with Switzerland covering such matters, but Brussels wants a new single treaty that covers any eventuality, with the Swiss rolling over and pays the "New Dane Geld"!
I suppose rose tinted specs are desired items for Remainers & Trots alike? :roll: . IGICB MM

User avatar
bovlomov
Posts: 3816
Joined: 5 Apr 2007, 7:45am
Contact:

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 25 Jun 2019, 5:46pm

merseymouth wrote:I suppose rose tinted specs are desired items for Remainers & Trots alike? :roll: . IGICB MM

I think you'll find that the Trots are on your side in this argument. Though I can't be certain, because I've not met a single one of the two dozen Trots that inhabit these islands.

slowster
Posts: 728
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby slowster » 25 Jun 2019, 6:00pm

merseymouth wrote:The E.U. currently has numerous treaties with Switzerland covering such matters, but Brussels wants a new single treaty that covers any eventuality, with the Swiss rolling over and pays the "New Dane Geld"!
I suppose rose tinted specs are desired items for Remainers & Trots alike? :roll: . IGICB MM

You keep complaining about how the EU treats countries that are not members. In doing so you implicitly recognise that the EU has the upper hand in its negotiations with any other country, arguably even including the USA given that the EU's market is larger.

Presumably you therefore now accept that many of the arguments made by leave campaigners that 'they need us more than we need them' and that it would be easy to get the sort of trade deal that leave campaigners wanted and were proposing, were codswallop.

So what do you want? Reading between the lines of your posts, I think that you would like the EU to collapse and break up, so that the UK would then be negotiating and making deals separately and on a more equal footing with Germany, France, Spain etc. There is no prospect of that happening.

So we are where we are now, seeking to leave and facing the prospect of having to jump through similar hoops ourselves for a deal on trade etc., and like Switzerland permanently having the weaker hand in future negotiations and dealings with the EU.

I fail to see how it is remainers that need rose tinted spectacles, when so far their warnings have been proved largely correct and the assurances of the leave campaigners have been repeatedly shown by the passage of time and events to be deluded.

merseymouth
Posts: 845
Joined: 23 Jan 2011, 11:16am

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby merseymouth » 25 Jun 2019, 6:15pm

Hi Slowster :wink: , I think you'll find that the Irish Republic IS actually a member of the E.U. and the Head Honchos in Brussels are playing hardball with them! :lol:
They wish to make Varadkar get ready to throw himself on the sword to defend the Gravy Train. Apparently the Polish Government want the Greats of the E.U. to lighten up, some hope. TTFN MM

PDQ Mobile
Posts: 2647
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 25 Jun 2019, 6:39pm

merseymouth wrote:hello again playmates :D , "Paywalls"? I don't know about them, but my local newsagent lets me have a copy for £2, or if you subscribe for the paper it will cost £1-60p.
The Swiss item is page one of today's business section!
The Irish issue is on page 5 of main paper. You can even get copies of such items delivered to your home by young folk on cycles, help the budding generation.
The E.U. currently has numerous treaties with Switzerland covering such matters, but Brussels wants a new single treaty that covers any eventuality, with the Swiss rolling over and pays the "New Dane Geld"!
I suppose rose tinted specs are desired items for Remainers & Trots alike? :roll: . IGICB MM

It's not a question of the Swiss rolling over but of difficult negotiation on a number of matters where lots of money and access to various things is at stake.
The Swiss decided that they would not join the EU In a referendum way back in the 1992 (I think).
The results were not overwhelming in favour either way. Roughly 49/50%. I think some Cantons voted quite heavily to join.
The Swiss are a member of the Schengen free movement area and of the EEA. And I have explained this to you before.

There remain within Switzerland's federal structure a few Cantons that offer considerable tax benefits to Corporate and Insurance interests. And many multinationals have their headquarters there and there are enormous numbers of "letterbox" companies too.
An unbalanced number and concentrated forbthe most part in just a few Cantons.

Much as the UK has the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands and some further flung tax havens such as the Cayman Islands.

It is likely I think that the EU would like to see better scutiny of these places. Perhaps that's why Rees Mogg et al want to leave?

It seems reasonable to me that wealthy businesses pay a fair share of tax.
It is about time we did something about such tax havens in the UK and before we start looking and pointing elsewhere.
I am surprised given much of what you have written on here that you support the furthering of tax havens for big business but I guess it takes all sorts.
We will see what happens between now and the 1st of July but given the sums involved (I think) someone will blink.