** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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slowster
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby slowster » 25 Jun 2019, 7:16pm

merseymouth wrote:I think you'll find that the Irish Republic IS actually a member of the E.U. and the Head Honchos in Brussels are playing hardball with them! :lol:
They wish to make Varadkar get ready to throw himself on the sword to defend the Gravy Train. Apparently the Polish Government want the Greats of the E.U. to lighten up, some hope.

Rather than address my points, you shifted the subject from Switzerland to Ireland. Perhaps you would be so good as to address my post rather than avoiding it.

As for the Irish/EU relations issue, I don't have access to the Telegraph article, although I understand it's about the EU asking the Irish Govt. to provide details of its plans for the border in the event of a No Deal exit, which could happen on 31/10. Without knowing the full content of the article, it looks like you (and maybe the Telegraph, which I would not rely on for a impartial reporting given it is strongly pro-Brexit and hoping one of its own columnists will soon be PM) are trying to interpret this as being the EU vs Ireland/the Irish Govt., with the EU bullying a member state.

Unless you or the Telegraph has some actual hard evidence, I don't see it that way. The Irish Govt. is indeed between a rock and a hard place in that its economy is more likely to suffer in the event of a hard/no deal Brexit than any other EU member (except Britain), and it probably desperately wants to avoid that. It wants to maintain the current frictionless border and maintain trade levels, and it is loath to install hard border checkpoints.

Neverthless, I don't think anyone in Ireland, north or south of the border, will consider this to be the Irish Govt.'s fault. Instead they will see it as the UK's fault that the EU is requiring them to install border checkpoints. They will not blame the EU because the EU is simply requiring Ireland to do what every member country is required to do where they have a border with a third country.

That is why I think that there is a very real risk of the presently small dissident republican movement getting a huge boost in the event of a hard/no deal Brexit (and I doubt that they would direct their terrorist attacks at any border checkpoints installed and manned by the Irish).

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 25 Jun 2019, 7:25pm

MM,like the rest of the leavers on the thread,doesn't do detail.
It's because Brexit voters can't, 'gut felling' bluster,Franco German imperialism and downright not knowing why they voted out,are the only reasons they can put forward.
Did someone say "you couldn't make it up" ?
They do continually :roll:
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Oldjohnw
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Oldjohnw » 25 Jun 2019, 7:58pm

It would be useful if MM could tell us what the Swiss and Irish problems actually are: I am not finding the links terribly helpful.
John

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Mike Sales
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mike Sales » 25 Jun 2019, 8:01pm

Oldjohnw wrote:It would be useful if MM could tell us what the Swiss and Irish problems actually are: I am not finding the links terribly helpful.


I wouldn't get your hopes up.

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 25 Jun 2019, 10:45pm

merseymouth wrote:I suppose rose tinted specs are desired items for Remainers & Trots alike? :roll: . IGICB MM


Why do you folk on the far right always call people to the left of centre Trots?

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 25 Jun 2019, 10:48pm

Oldjohnw wrote:It would be useful if MM could tell us what the Swiss and Irish problems actually are: I am not finding the links terribly helpful.

Why bother - do you really think anything the Telegraph will be other than Brexit propaganda to fuel the prejudices of it's septuagenarian readership?

windmiller
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby windmiller » 25 Jun 2019, 10:49pm

Remainers tend to post lengthy explanations of why they are very afraid of Brexit and beyond. These are quite often liberally seeded with links from left wing anti Uk pro EU media sources. Naturally the authors of said doomage are proclaimed experts. The same experts that predicted we would vote to remain in the EU in 2016 and that this country would be a third world begging bowl before we left the EU.

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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 25 Jun 2019, 11:52pm

windmiller wrote:Remainers tend to post lengthy explanations of why they are very afraid of Brexit and beyond. These are quite often liberally seeded with links from left wing anti Uk pro EU media sources. Naturally the authors of said doomage are proclaimed experts. The same experts that predicted we would vote to remain in the EU in 2016 and that this country would be a third world begging bowl before we left the EU.

Tell us, what are these anti UK media sources? Are they the ones funded by white supremacists, holocaust deniers, tax dodgers, career criminals and hostile states? Or would those be the Brexit supporting media sources?

The sources I read have been consistent over the past three years. They have links to legal documents. Their arguments are based on logic.

Pro-Brexit literature, by contrast, often defies not only logic and basic maths but also defies reality.

Point me to the experts who said "this country would be a third world begging bowl before we left the EU". I must have missed them at the time.

windmiller
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby windmiller » 26 Jun 2019, 12:09am

bovlomov wrote:
windmiller wrote:Remainers tend to post lengthy explanations of why they are very afraid of Brexit and beyond. These are quite often liberally seeded with links from left wing anti Uk pro EU media sources. Naturally the authors of said doomage are proclaimed experts. The same experts that predicted we would vote to remain in the EU in 2016 and that this country would be a third world begging bowl before we left the EU.

Tell us, what are these anti UK media sources? Are they the ones funded by white supremacists, holocaust deniers, tax dodgers, career criminals and hostile states? Or would those be the Brexit supporting media sources?

The sources I read have been consistent over the past three years. They have links to legal documents. Their arguments are based on logic.

Pro-Brexit literature, by contrast, often defies not only logic and basic maths but also defies reality.

Point me to the experts who said "this country would be a third world begging bowl before we left the EU". I must have missed them at the time.


The Guardian is festooned with anti Uk bias surely you are aware of that? It is also anti USA (even prior to Trump) and Israel in outlook. Mark Carney, ex Governor of Mordor enough said, just join the dots and follow his yellow brick road.
As for logic, it would be logical to leave the EU then make or break deals with them, that is logic, not grovelling to them while their tentacles are still around our throats.

roubaixtuesday
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 26 Jun 2019, 7:17am

Apparently Johnson has now said Brexit 31st October "Do or die".

Brexit: Now a death cult. Seems about right.

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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 26 Jun 2019, 7:51am

windmiller wrote:The Guardian is festooned with anti Uk bias surely you are aware of that? It is also anti USA (even prior to Trump) and Israel in outlook. Mark Carney, ex Governor of Mordor enough said, just join the dots and follow his yellow brick road.
As for logic, it would be logical to leave the EU then make or break deals with them, that is logic, not grovelling to them while their tentacles are still around our throats.

You are confusing logic with your opinions. Your opinions might be based on logic, but we can't tell. You never pursue any line of argument for long enough to get to its root, and instead throw in one assertion after another.

OK. Here goes. Why is it logical to leave the EU and then make or break deals with them? Will we be able to make better deals? Will we have more influence? Will there be any down sides? Is the UK, with its current leadership, able to manage the changing economy?

francovendee
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby francovendee » 26 Jun 2019, 8:34am

After 3 years of endless press coverage there has been, in my opinion, little shifting of peoples views. In fact I'd say the opposite.
When interviewed both sides remain entrenched, public and politicians.
The trouble is everything appears to be of secondary importance to both major parties.
Whatever the outcome Cameron has done a huge disservice to the British people in starting this mess.

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 26 Jun 2019, 8:47am

windmiller wrote:Remainers tend to post lengthy explanations of why they are very afraid of Brexit and beyond. These are quite often liberally seeded with links from left wing anti Uk pro EU media sources. Naturally the authors of said doomage are proclaimed experts. The same experts that predicted we would vote to remain in the EU in 2016 and that this country would be a third world begging bowl before we left the EU.


Have you evidence that anyone said that or are you a liar?

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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 26 Jun 2019, 8:57am

pete75 wrote:
windmiller wrote: The same experts that predicted we would vote to remain in the EU in 2016 and that this country would be a third world begging bowl before we left the EU.


Have you evidence...?

I've asked the same question. No reply.

What he means, I think, is that some economists made some negative forecasts that didn't exactly match what happened. It was the politicians who used the loose and dramatic language.

Then again, I believe a lot of bad things are happening to the economy. I don't know for sure, because I'm taking the word of so-called experts.

merseymouth
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby merseymouth » 26 Jun 2019, 1:24pm

Hi all, Accept one very simple fact, despite the E.U. insisting that the "Free Market" is essential, with freedom of movement, it exists as a Protectionist entity!
They demand everyone follows their isolationist rules, but demand that others give then free access to the open markets. Do as we say, not do as we do!
As France declines to accept back people who have crossed the English Channel to enter the UK illegally, it demands that Italy takes back people who cross their common border?
So one thing is clear, the UK is already failing it's citizens, so totally open borders will make matters far worse. That is not a racist comment, it is merely accepting reality.
Switzerland and the Irish Republic are mere pawns in the E.U. strategy, sacrificial. Hard ball tactics will put the Republics economy into meltdown, not me saying it, but the Irish Government. IGICB MM