Cycling UK Forum

andrec wrote:Brexit had widespread support across the UK which is why Remain lost.

I agree with you. What we don't fully understand is who voted Leave and why. The more you talk about your own feelings and background (without revealing personal details), the more we can all understand. What actually correlates to Leave and what to Remain isn't clear, and why. Age is a factor (but why?) and are there younger people people who voted Leave (yes, there are).

What we can be certain about is the reaction of some Remainers to their defeat. They decided to tell us the result was not valid because they have a low opinion of people who voted Leave

That might be true. Of course, that is going to be fed by the fact that less well-educated people voted Leave (that's a fact, AFAIK). BTW, I don't think anyone is saying the result wasn't valid (thank goodness - no funny ballot papers): the problem is what to do with it. Politically, I would fight against it (legally and peacefully). I would vote for an MP who opposes Brexit. I just don't see how you can give up on a matter of principle while there are still remedies available.

horizon wrote:Politically, I would fight against it (legally and peacefully). I would vote for an MP who opposes Brexit. I just don't see how you can give up on a matter of principle while there are still remedies available.

Exactly.

And that is what I am doing as it is what I feel is important for not only the UK but for the wider European context too.

There have been times when frustration about concrete reasons for leaving have been so absent that words can be ill chosen.

Suffice to say that when folk talk about laws and rules being imposed upon us from Brussels it shows, IMV, a swallowing hook line and sinker of the UKIP unfounded tosh.

The EU is mostly about compromise and consensus.From many disparate and independent nation states.
A willingness to compromise for the common good.
Difficult in some areas for sure.
Not perfect, it is true, but better than much else in a tough world.

horizon wrote:

andrec wrote:Brexit had widespread support across the UK which is why Remain lost.

I agree with you. What we don't fully understand is who voted Leave and why.

And we never will. All poll results are beyond complete explanation. Nobody can ever find out why everyone voted as they did. We don't fully understand who voted Remain and why, and we never will. When poll results are announced people recognise the impossibility of fully understanding them, accept the result as the will of the people and they don't start offering very frank and sometimes less than polite opinions about the voters for the opposing side. The people's vote of 2016 was an exception to this convention, and an unfortunate one. Poll results must be accepted with good grace, not bitterness, anger and contempt. Some Remainers have let themselves down badly in this respect.

andrec wrote:Some Remainers have let themselves down badly in this respect.

And the leavers "boo yah sucks" attitude?

Lets face it the country is divided and however it pans out it isn't going to fix itself anytime soon and neither side is blame free.

kwackers wrote:

andrec wrote:Some Remainers have let themselves down badly in this respect.

And the leavers "boo yah sucks" attitude?
Lets face it the country is divided and however it pans out it isn't going to fix itself anytime soon and neither side is blame free.

And if the economy does tank there will be a lot of bile directed at leave supporters and rightfully so.

Andrec hasn't yet told us which of our laws some foreign government has made.

kwackers wrote:

pete75 wrote:"A majority of those working full-time or part-time voted to remain in the EU; most of those not working voted to leave. More than half of those retired on a private pension voted to leave, as did two thirds of those retired on a state pension."

When it doesn't affect you idealism is cheap.

Quite!

Oldjohnw wrote:Andrec hasn't yet told us which of our laws some foreign government has made.

That maybe because he can't.

reohn2 wrote:

Oldjohnw wrote:Andrec hasn't yet told us which of our laws some foreign government has made.

That maybe because he can't.

No one can .... unless they make it up. Let us call it "the straight banana fallacy"; or "unbending the banana"; or just "bananas" for short.

Cugel

Cugel wrote:

reohn2 wrote:

Oldjohnw wrote:Andrec hasn't yet told us which of our laws some foreign government has made.

That maybe because he can't.

No one can .... unless they make it up. Let us call it "the straight banana fallacy"; or "unbending the banana"; or just "bananas" for short.

Cugel

Yes we have no ......... .... https://youtu.be/_hF05ik5TFQ

horizon wrote:

andrec wrote:Brexit had widespread support across the UK which is why Remain lost.

I agree with you. What we don't fully understand is who voted Leave and why. The more you talk about your own feelings and background (without revealing personal details), the more we can all understand. What actually correlates to Leave and what to Remain isn't clear, and why. Age is a factor (but why?) and are there younger people people who voted Leave (yes, there are).

What we can be certain about is the reaction of some Remainers to their defeat. They decided to tell us the result was not valid because they have a low opinion of people who voted Leave

That might be true. Of course, that is going to be fed by the fact that less well-educated people voted Leave (that's a fact, AFAIK). BTW, I don't think anyone is saying the result wasn't valid (thank goodness - no funny ballot papers): the problem is what to do with it. Politically, I would fight against it (legally and peacefully). I would vote for an MP who opposes Brexit. I just don't see how you can give up on a matter of principle while there are still remedies available.

Leavers are less educated than remainers and that's a fact. You really know that? Or should I say you really believe opinion polls - like the ones that stated that remain was going to win. Facts and experts don't really mix with polictics, Better to look to the conclusions of events or history if you want to take a stab at facts. A democracy should be led by the people via their representitives not by experts who are there to give advice when asked which is optional and not binding like it has been for a long time.

horizon wrote:

andrec wrote:Brexit had widespread support across the UK which is why Remain lost.

I agree with you. What we don't fully understand is who voted Leave and why. The more you talk about your own feelings and background (without revealing personal details), the more we can all understand. What actually correlates to Leave and what to Remain isn't clear, and why. Age is a factor (but why?) and are there younger people people who voted Leave (yes, there are).

What we can be certain about is the reaction of some Remainers to their defeat. They decided to tell us the result was not valid because they have a low opinion of people who voted Leave

That might be true. Of course, that is going to be fed by the fact that less well-educated people voted Leave (that's a fact, AFAIK). BTW, I don't think anyone is saying the result wasn't valid (thank goodness - no funny ballot papers): the problem is what to do with it. Politically, I would fight against it (legally and peacefully). I would vote for an MP who opposes Brexit. I just don't see how you can give up on a matter of principle while there are still remedies available.

Leavers are less educated than remainers and that's a fact. You really know that? Or should I say you really believe opinion polls - like the ones that stated that remain was going to win. Facts and experts don't really mix with politics, Better to look to the conclusions of events or history if you want to take a stab at facts. A democracy should be led by the people via their representitives not by experts who are there to give advice when asked which is optional and not binding like it has been for a long time.

I think quite a few remainers on here have said the result was not valid, they have thrown everything and the kitchen sink at it to discredit the fact that they lost.

windmiller wrote:Leavers are less educated than remainers and that's a fact. You really know that?

We can't know exactly who voted what, but the polls are reasonably clear.

Don't be offended though. It goes like this. Leave voters tend to be older. Older people tend to have fewer paper qualifications. There are other factors of course, to do with social class and so on.

[Declaration of Interests: 4 Grade C 'O' Levels]

The Theory behind No-Deal Economics -Joseph Schumpeter and his followers. ( never heard of him)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... GTUK_email

windmiller wrote:
Leavers are less educated than remainers and that's a fact. You really know that? Or should I say you really believe opinion polls

Actually I was supporting andrec's point that the referendum was a bit of a slap in the face (my words) for the educated, the managerial etc. BTW, that's not polls, that's research. So you'll have to have that out with andrec.

And also BTW, that isn't sneering at people less well "educated": in fact it was saying that a few pompous Remainers hadn't looked past people's lack of exam results to see real people with good hearts and minds.