** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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Cunobelin
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cunobelin » 17 Jul 2019, 6:14am

windmiller wrote:Many who voted remain have a phobic fear of reality and they get really vexed at anyone who does not partake of it. So much for liberal tolerance - it died
long ago.



The irony is that there is no "reality"

No-one even has any idea whether we are leaving or how.

All that we have is the dismissal of any expert who does not say that a NO DEal is going to pave the streets of the UK with gold immediately.

WHat reality we have is that uncertainty and contingencies are costing billions

There is a high probability wae are going to have a financial crash (depth of which depends on source) and have massive problems with trade due to WTO rules

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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 17 Jul 2019, 9:20am

windmiller wrote:Many who voted remain have a phobic fear of reality and they get really vexed at anyone who does not partake of it. So much for liberal tolerance - it died
long ago.
I may not know much about psychology, but I'm impressed at the "expertise" displayed by some Brex**iteers in psychologically-profiling the mindsets of us Remain supporters! Certainly I'd never be able to make such a good job of it. :wink:

Mind you, I hope none of these guys ever get to work for the CPS, PP'ing crime suspects....
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

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al_yrpal
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 17 Jul 2019, 10:21am

A lot of these soothsaying folk remind me of the classic guys with placards reading "beware the end is nigh". Bereft of any confidence in Britain to overcome the difficulties of making Brexit a success :lol:

Al
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 17 Jul 2019, 10:24am

al_yrpal wrote: Britain to overcome the difficulties of making Brexit a success :lol:

Al

At least you agree there are difficulties now.
It's not so long ago it was easy.

Hope you're doing your bit by being out there spending rather than shuffling your cash into offshore accounts...

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Vorpal » 17 Jul 2019, 10:29am

al_yrpal wrote:A lot of these soothsaying folk remind me of the classic guys with placards reading "beware the end is nigh". Bereft of any confidence in Britain to overcome the difficulties of making Brexit a success :lol:

Al

I am quite certain the Britain will eventually recover from this whichever way it goes. Both Brexit and remaining in the EU have potential either way. But so far, there's been 3 years of bickering, and all too little of either planning or success. I don't, TBF, expect much better from the next 3 years.

Even though I voted remain, I could see benefits of Brexit. If I had seen those benefits being realised, I might very well have been won over to the Brexit camp. Instead, I see the nation becoming more divided, and both remainers and brexiters deriding one another for nothing more than differing opinions.

It makes me sad.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 17 Jul 2019, 10:37am

al_yrpal wrote:A lot of these soothsaying folk remind me of the classic guys with placards reading "beware the end is nigh". Bereft of any confidence in Britain to overcome the difficulties of making Brexit a success :lol: l

Al - do you think government should just do any old thing, based on optimism and lies? Or do you think government has a responsibility to plan, and to seek advice from people with knowledge and experience?

If the former, welcome to the world of Boris Johnson - he of the failed and failing projects for London. He of the cost over-runs, of the procedural evasions, he who never took responsibility for anything, and repeatedly lied to the people of London. He's your type of man!

If the latter, it's not soothsaying. It's science. It's mathematics. It's law. Sure, you can always find inaccurate forecasts. That's normal. If you think they are rigid predictions, you have misread the literature. People who know about these things, they have pointed out the dangers, and they have pointed out the logical impossibility of some of the wilder suggestions. Notice, these experts are almost never challenged on detail. Instead their opinions are dismissed as 'negativity'. It's a regular pattern - even on these pages, would you believe.

But stick to your optimism and lols if it makes you feel better.

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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 17 Jul 2019, 10:43am

al_yrpal wrote:A lot of these soothsaying folk remind me of the classic guys with placards reading "beware the end is nigh". Bereft of any confidence in Britain to overcome the difficulties of making Brexit a success
There you are! Yet more supporting evidence for my previous post!
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 17 Jul 2019, 10:46am

Vorpal wrote:I am quite certain the Britain will eventually recover from this whichever way it goes.

I disagree. Britain's reputation and standing will never recover from this humiliation.

Both Brexit and remaining in the EU have potential either way.

Had, not have! Brexit had potential, but it turned out the the politicians promoting it are a lot of liars and idiots. They didn't have to be but they were. And are.

Even though I voted remain, I could see benefits of Brexit.

Same here.

If I had seen those benefits being realised, I might very well have been won over to the Brexit camp. Instead, I see the nation becoming more divided, and both remainers and brexiters deriding one another for nothing more than differing opinions.

Admirably even-handed of you, but it is about a lot more than differing opinions. Much of it is about verifiable facts versus unadulterated lies. Appealing to the centre does a disservice to the honest and rewards the people acting in bad faith.

It makes me sad.

It makes me hopping mad.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 17 Jul 2019, 11:06am

bovlomov wrote:
Vorpal wrote:I am quite certain the Britain will eventually recover from this whichever way it goes.

I disagree. Britain's reputation and standing will never recover from this humiliation.

I'd agree with that.
Britain was on the slide anyway. Our importance in the world was falling away as bigger more vibrant economies start to take centre stage.

What brexit has done is slid us at least ten years further along that route with the added bonus of being a parody for the amusement of others.
Fortunately Trump deflects some of the attention so it's not as bad as it would have been.

Our contributions to the world are falling, pulling ourselves out of the various committees and research projects; science, medical etc in order to pursue our dream can only reduce our standing in the one thing we were historically good at.

Ultimately we're simply 60 million consumers clinging to a rock and soon we'll be exporting the scientists and engineers who don't simply want to watch the big projects from afar but want to actively take part.
That's the sum total of our new found position in the world.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby andrec » 17 Jul 2019, 11:09am

al_yrpal wrote:A lot of these soothsaying folk remind me of the classic guys with placards reading "beware the end is nigh". Bereft of any confidence in Britain to overcome the difficulties of making Brexit a success :lol:

Al


I think those religious blokes with placards believe what they tell us. I can only assume the small minority of apocalyptic Remainers don't, but are simply trying to scare the rest of us because they want to stay in the EU which has served their kind of people so well. Surely clever and educated people, which they tell us they are, can't really believe such rubbish.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 17 Jul 2019, 11:13am

andrec wrote:I think those religious blokes with placards believe what they tell us. I can only assume the small minority of apocalyptic Remainers don't, but are simply trying to scare the rest of us because they want to stay in the EU which has served their kind of people so well. Surely clever and educated people, which they tell us they are, can't really believe such rubbish.

And how is project "it's going to be easy and great" coming along?

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 17 Jul 2019, 2:38pm

kwackers wrote:
al_yrpal wrote: Britain to overcome the difficulties of making Brexit a success :lol:

Al

At least you agree there are difficulties now.
It's not so long ago it was easy.

Hope you're doing your bit by being out there spending rather than shuffling your cash into offshore accounts...


Nope, not spending much at all, just struggling with being a carer for someone with very serious disabilities. And, no offshore investments other than FTSE 100 shares. Did buy a German Pedelec though

Al
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 17 Jul 2019, 5:15pm

Rees Mogg is forecasting no deal will give the economy an £80 bn boost which is the polar opposite of what Eeyor and the Treasury are saying. It will be interesting to see who is right? RM follows in the footsteps of his Dad, both astute investors. Perhaps reality lies somewhere in between? ie no change economically... :D

Al
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 17 Jul 2019, 5:21pm

al_yrpal wrote:Rees Mogg is forecasting no deal will give the economy an £80 bn boost which is the polar opposite of what Eeyor and the Treasury are saying. It will be interesting to see who is right? RM follows in the footsteps of his Dad, both astute investors. Perhaps reality lies somewhere in between? ie no change economically... :D

Al

Given all that we've irrevocably lost already I fail to see how he works that out.

Anyway, he's already been wrong on several occasions so far so I think we can safely discount his views.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 17 Jul 2019, 5:23pm

al_yrpal wrote:Rees Mogg is forecasting no deal will give the economy an £80 bn boost which is the polar opposite of what Eeyor and the Treasury are saying. It will be interesting to see who is right? RM follows in the footsteps of his Dad, both astute investors. Perhaps reality lies somewhere in between? ie no change economically... :D

Al


Well, them and quite literally every reputable economist.

Who knows who is right? It's not as though the revival of the framework for 40% of our trade has any predictable consequences, is it ? Best just guess.