** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Also makes me worried about the EU. One day it's a country. Mark my words it's a take over by the federalists already.
Would be better if we had stayed in. Look at Belgium. A European treaty once nearly got scuppered because a small (iirc the smallest) region in Belgium was able to veto the Belgian acceptance and ratification of the treaty. In a federal Europe the UK could probably veto. At the very least it could carry out its usual trick of picking off support through various means such as effectively bribes. Power from within the United States of Europe!
Would be better if we had stayed in. Look at Belgium. A European treaty once nearly got scuppered because a small (iirc the smallest) region in Belgium was able to veto the Belgian acceptance and ratification of the treaty. In a federal Europe the UK could probably veto. At the very least it could carry out its usual trick of picking off support through various means such as effectively bribes. Power from within the United States of Europe!
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Thread has been trimmed, yet again. Please keep it civil.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
So can I, and I fully agree it's not a topic for flippancy or jokes. In my case it was my mother, who suffered from the condition terminally, following a stroke (not Alzheimers). A distressing time for me and all the family. I don't know who accused who of the affliction, on this forum, but I'll distance myself from any of that.al_yrpal wrote:I can tell you about dementia
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
I don't dispute that you do - but do you imagine that you'd lose any of those things if we remained in the EU? On the contrary. I don't share all the interests you've listed above, true, but there's a fair bit of overlap - especially concerning the countryside and environment.al_yrpal wrote:During my life I have visited 45 countries, the USA 15 times, China twice 30 years apart. Our culture...art, theatre, BBC Radio and TV, the Proms, Concerts, gigs, festivals, fetes, craft shows, country fairs, our stunning countryside, bridleways, footpaths, pubs, clubs, single interest clubs, our history, landscapes, coast, I could go on and on. Love it all and as an expat you lose the lot. Love our country...
And here's the rub. Remaining in the EU is more likely to serve to protect the things we love. Leaving the EU - well, despite the platitudes of some, a big unknown...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
I can only sympathise. Must be a thankless task for you and your fellow Mods...Vorpal wrote:Thread has been trimmed, yet again. Please keep it civil.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
661-Pete wrote:I can only sympathise. Must be a thankless task for you and your fellow Mods...Vorpal wrote:Thread has been trimmed, yet again. Please keep it civil.
Mostly me. The others can't be bothered. They'd probably just bin it.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
661-Pete wrote:So can I, and I fully agree it's not a topic for flippancy or jokes. In my case it was my mother, who suffered from the condition terminally, following a stroke (not Alzheimers). A distressing time for me and all the family. I don't know who accused who of the affliction, on this forum, but I'll distance myself from any of that.al_yrpal wrote:I can tell you about dementia
Actually it was me, I was somewhat annoyed by Al's claim of how great things are now public spending is under control.
I watched a friend of mine look after his wife when she came down with dementia, being elderly it wore him down until he could no longer cope with the reality of someone who neither knew who he was or had control over their own body. He was completely distraught, they'd been married over 50 years and very obviously loved each other a lot.
I watched as he put her in a home, then a year later she moved because she was now beyond even their care.
I also watched as his savings dwindled and the council put a charge on his house leaving him with almost nothing for decades of hard work.
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
661-Pete wrote:I don't dispute that you do - but do you imagine that you'd lose any of those things if we remained in the EU? On the contrary. I don't share all the interests you've listed above, true, but there's a fair bit of overlap - especially concerning the countryside and environment.al_yrpal wrote:During my life I have visited 45 countries, the USA 15 times, China twice 30 years apart. Our culture...art, theatre, BBC Radio and TV, the Proms, Concerts, gigs, festivals, fetes, craft shows, country fairs, our stunning countryside, bridleways, footpaths, pubs, clubs, single interest clubs, our history, landscapes, coast, I could go on and on. Love it all and as an expat you lose the lot. Love our country...
And here's the rub. Remaining in the EU is more likely to serve to protect the things we love. Leaving the EU - well, despite the platitudes of some, a big unknown...
Pete, I dont understand that. Its us who look after Britain not nannies in the EU? Anyway look what those Danish pair trawlers operating under a fake British/EU licence have done to the seabed in Lyme Bay, its now a marine desert. That sort of thing will get stopped.
Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
I don't know about Lyme bay (fossils?) - but I do recall the 'Scallop wars' in the Baie de la Seine last year. As I recall it, British trawlers, complete with environmentally-damaging dredging equipment, were scooping up scallops during the 'close season' when French trawlers were banned from the area. Whether the Brits violated French territorial waters is a matter of dispute. All in all, a pretty ugly state of affairs - and likely to resume if Britain leaves the EU.al_yrpal wrote:Pete, I dont understand that. Its us who look after Britain not nannies in the EU? Anyway look what those Danish pair trawlers operating under a fake British/EU licence have done to the seabed in Lyme Bay, its now a marine desert.
Incidentally, your allusion to 'nannies' is rather demeaning. When did Britain not "look after" Britain throughout all the 45 years of EEC/EU membership? Who are the 'nannies'? The ones who banned conker fights without protective headgear? The ones who forced us to eat straight bananas?
I don't know what will be stopped. Illegal fishing is illegal fishing and will continue to happen, whatever the jurisdiction.That sort of thing will get stopped.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
PDQ Mobile wrote:I would be interested in your view, Vorpal, about the positives of leaving?
Such positives have become a rare feature on here.
I've outlined my views on the (potential) positives in previous posts (a few hundred pages ago ) viewtopic.php?f=15&t=108977&p=1280704&hilit=fisheries#p1280704
But basically, I don't think that the EU farm and fisheries policies have been ideal for the UK.
I made some suggestions about farm policy viewtopic.php?f=15&t=108977&p=1132670&hilit=farm+policy#p1132670
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Vorpal wrote:But basically, I don't think that the EU farm and fisheries policies have been ideal for the UK.
I know that Farage agrees with you about that, and it's why he fought tooth and nail for UK fisherman at all those EU Parliament Fisheries meetings he attended (ahem... just the one) .
And this is the point. Many of the UK's problems with the EU might have been resolved, or at least modified in our favour, if UK politicians had spent more time seriously engaging in detail rather than screaming like toddlers. I know a lot of serious work was done by UK officials, that was not noticed by the tabloids - but it can't have helped that the rest of the EU had to watch senior UK politicians scapegoating the EU for all of Westminster's shortcomings. Dale Carnegie would not have approved.
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Vorpal wrote:I've outlined my views on the (potential) positives in previous posts (a few hundred pages ago ) viewtopic.php?f=15&t=108977&p=1280704&hilit=fisheries#p1280704
But basically, I don't think that the EU farm and fisheries policies have been ideal for the UK.
I made some suggestions about farm policy viewtopic.php?f=15&t=108977&p=1132670&hilit=farm+policy#p1132670
I agree with the general point that agriculture is the main potential area for post-Brexit improvements.
However, how big an opportunity this is in reality remains to be seen.
Firstly, we’ve had much discussion about how trade deals elsewhere might actually make this worse rather than better, for which chlorinated chicken is the poster-boy of a much wider issue of having to change our own practices to suit others lower standards or see our agriculture wiped out.
Secondly, even a cursory read of the political declaration shows that fisheries policy, whilst nominally a UK held power will, in practice, be part of a wider negotiation on market access.
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
661-Pete wrote:I don't know about Lyme bay (fossils?) - but I do recall the 'Scallop wars' in the Baie de la Seine last year. As I recall it, British trawlers, complete with environmentally-damaging dredging equipment, were scooping up scallops during the 'close season' when French trawlers were banned from the area. Whether the Brits violated French territorial waters is a matter of dispute. All in all, a pretty ugly state of affairs - and likely to resume if Britain leaves the EU.al_yrpal wrote:Pete, I dont understand that. Its us who look after Britain not nannies in the EU? Anyway look what those Danish pair trawlers operating under a fake British/EU licence have done to the seabed in Lyme Bay, its now a marine desert.
Incidentally, your allusion to 'nannies' is rather demeaning. When did Britain not "look after" Britain throughout all the 45 years of EEC/EU membership? Who are the 'nannies'? The ones who banned conker fights without protective headgear? The ones who forced us to eat straight bananas?I don't know what will be stopped. Illegal fishing is illegal fishing and will continue to happen, whatever the jurisdiction.That sort of thing will get stopped.
The French use the same trawls! The UK fishermen were fishing within the law. The French wanted the protected period extended. It was all settled amicably in the end. The Danes were operating within the law too, but they succeeded in ruining Lyme Bays seabed. It will take 20 years to restore it. I used to see many dolphins sailing across it once, you never see them now.
I make a point of seeking out and buying African produce, buying it is much better than putting aid in the pockets of corrupt officials and politicians.
Out of 7m Bulgarians it's reckoned that a further 2m will leave in the next few years leaving only the Roma and the old. Free EU movement is a curse for Bulgaria.
Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
661-Pete wrote:So can I, and I fully agree it's not a topic for flippancy or jokes. In my case it was my mother, who suffered from the condition terminally, following a stroke (not Alzheimers). A distressing time for me and all the family. I don't know who accused who of the affliction, on this forum, but I'll distance myself from any of that.al_yrpal wrote:I can tell you about dementia
I am sure every decent person here will too. Dog Whistle sniping with dementia as it's subject is plainly despicable. It's just over a year that my wife and I lost our past lives and it's been very painful.
Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
al_yrpal wrote:[
Out of 7m Bulgarians it's reckoned that a further 2m will leave in the next few years leaving only the Roma and the old. Free EU movement is a curse for Bulgaria.
Al
Who reckoned?
http://worldpopulationreview.com/countr ... opulation/
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