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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 19 Aug 2019, 6:05pm
by Debs
pete75 wrote:
661-Pete wrote:
mercalia wrote:Be careful you dont call them the "Lower Class" as some one here will jump down your throat :wink:

Come off it! I don't see either of the words "lower" or "class" in P75's post. And you know full well what word it was I found inappropriate. "Idiot".


Rich Hall said When you go to work, if your name is on the front of the building, you're upper class; if your name is on your office door, you're middle class; and if your name is on your shirt, you're working class. :wink:
I suppose you could add lower middle class to that - name on desk.


Someone else said; if your television is larger than your sideboard, then your working class :)

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 19 Aug 2019, 6:25pm
by Mike Sales
pete75 wrote:Rich Hall said When you go to work, if your name is on the front of the building, you're upper class; if your name is on your office door, you're middle class; and if your name is on your shirt, you're working class. :wink:
I suppose you could add lower middle class to that - name on desk.


Rich Hall is an American and does not understand English snobbery.
If your name is on the building you are clearly in trade, and a counter-jumper.
An English gentleman makes his money from rents, and never mentions it.

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 19 Aug 2019, 6:33pm
by pete75
Mike Sales wrote:
pete75 wrote:Rich Hall said When you go to work, if your name is on the front of the building, you're upper class; if your name is on your office door, you're middle class; and if your name is on your shirt, you're working class. :wink:
I suppose you could add lower middle class to that - name on desk.


Rich Hall is an American and does not understand English snobbery.
If your name is on the building you are clearly in trade, and a counter-jumper.
An English gentleman makes his money from rents, and never mentions it.


Good god. You've disillusioned me - I used to think no fen people were snobs.....

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 19 Aug 2019, 6:36pm
by Mike Sales
pete75 wrote:Good god. You've disillusioned me - I used to think no fen people were snobs.....


I'm no snob,or perhaps an inverted one. I have merely studied the toffs. Haven't you watched Downton Abbey ? Julian Fellowes is a fine example of their snobbery.

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 19 Aug 2019, 6:42pm
by pete75
Mike Sales wrote:
pete75 wrote:Good god. You've disillusioned me - I used to think no fen people were snobs.....


I'm no snob,or perhaps an inverted one. I have merely studied the toffs. Haven't you watched Downton Abbey ? Julian Fellowes is a fine example of their snobbery.


No I haven't, well not a full episode. The program is heavily influenced by Thatcher's birthplace I think. The Earl of Grantham for a start and then the name itself, Downton Abbey. Just outside Grantham there's a large shop called Downtown. Both together are too much of a coincidence.

In works by Jane Austen and Trollope the upper crust seem very obsessed with money and wealth.

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 19 Aug 2019, 6:44pm
by Mike Sales
pete75 wrote:
No I haven't well not a full episode. The program is heavily influenced by south Lincs I think. The Earl of Grantham for a start and then the name itself, Downton Abbey. Just outside Grantham there's a large shop called Downtown. Both together are too much of a coincidence.


I'm afraid I am too much of an inverted snob to have watched any of it.
We have a Boston Downtown too.

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 19 Aug 2019, 7:04pm
by pete75
Mike Sales wrote:
pete75 wrote:
No I haven't well not a full episode. The program is heavily influenced by south Lincs I think. The Earl of Grantham for a start and then the name itself, Downton Abbey. Just outside Grantham there's a large shop called Downtown. Both together are too much of a coincidence.


I'm afraid I am too much of an inverted snob to have watched any of it.
We have a Boston Downtown too.


Yeah but there's no Earl of Boston

They both belong to the Isaac family who also own Oldrids in Boston and the Johnson garden centre as well.

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 20 Aug 2019, 9:50am
by mercalia
Boris on the backstop

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49402840

He may be a Trumpette. But he is right about the backstop and the way it undermines the UK?

That is Mays legacy? She should never have ploughed on with her flawed agreement wasting all that time?

The EU does need to think again. work some thing out.

The EU is trying to keep its cake and eat it? Seem to be supporting the GFA but also protecting it's single market? It cant have both? As Boris says -

He also warned that it risked "weakening the delicate balance" of the Good Friday peace agreement because unionist parties like the DUP are so unhappy with it.

It undermines the constructive ambiguity that is central to the GFA?

The Eu should come clean and say it dont care a fig about the GFA - then Ireland/Eire can see the EU is not really on its side, but is a patsey, is being used? In a way the EUs attitude is the strongest argument FOR leaving the EU, it dont care a damn about the sovereigny of countries, is quite happy to damage a member country to protect its ideology & to do it using suberfuge?

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 20 Aug 2019, 10:00am
by pete75
mercalia wrote:Boris on the backstop

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49402840

He may be a Trumpette. But he is right about the backstop and the way it undermines the UK?

That is Mays legacy? She should never have ploughed on with her flawed agreement wasting all that time?

The EU does need to think again. work some thing out.

The EU is trying to keep its cake and eat it? Seem to be supporting the GFA but also protecting it's single market? It cant have both? As Boris says -

He also warned that it risked "weakening the delicate balance" of the Good Friday peace agreement because unionist parties like the DUP are so unhappy with it.


If Johnson thinks the back stop is so wrong why did he vote for it at the end of March?

It's a hard border that's most likely to cause problems with the GFA and remember Northern Ireland voted to stay in the EU so for most people there the backstop agreement is acceptable. From what Priti Patel is saying the hard border will arrive on 1st November as she intends to remove free movement of EU citizens to the UK. There will have to be immigration officials on the border to enforce this.

Anything and everything bad that comes out of Brexit is entirely down to the UK. Leaving the EU is it's choice and entirely voluntary. You leavers can winge and moan about that as much as you like but it was your choice.

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 20 Aug 2019, 10:01am
by kwackers
mercalia wrote:Boris on the backstop

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49402840

He may be a Trumpette. But he is right about the backstop and the way it undermines the UK?

That is Mays legacy? She should never have ploughed on with her flawed agreement wasting all that time?

The EU does need to think again. work some thing out.

The EU is trying to keep its cake and eat it? Seem to be supporting the GFA but also protecting it's single market? It cant have both? As Boris says -

He also warned that it risked "weakening the delicate balance" of the Good Friday peace agreement because unionist parties like the DUP are so unhappy with it.

Does anyone care?
There's no need for the backstop or the EU to undermine the UK, we're proving unparalleled when it comes to such stuff.

The EU aren't going to agree to an open border and neither is the WTO.
So it's either this oft touted but not demonstrated "technological solution" or a border or a deal tying us into the EU.

For me it's just more entertainment, particular as I see parallels with Trumps attempts to force peoples hands (and fail) and BoJo is a pale imitation of Trump and with an awful lot less leverage.

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 20 Aug 2019, 10:04am
by Oldjohnw
Can we expect 1m British people currently living in Europe to be sent back here shortly after 31 October?

British people are, of course, ex-pats. They are never immigrants. They live in an ex-pat community, never an immigrant ghetto.

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 20 Aug 2019, 10:05am
by mercalia
Ad Hominem arguments fail to deal with the issues. Separate off what he said then from whether what he is saying now is true or not? I suppose then the UK govt thought that ALL parties were dealing with the GFA, the EU was only apparantly so, rather having another agenda. It is clear now that the EU is more concerned with its ideology than the GFA. It takes a bureaucratic organisation like the EU to fall to understand the problems that this has created .

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 20 Aug 2019, 10:10am
by pete75
Oldjohnw wrote:Can we expect 1m British people currently living in Europe to be sent back here shortly after 31 October?

British people are, of course, ex-pats. They are never immigrants. They live in an ex-pat community, never an immigrant ghetto.


Most elderly and probably needing expensive health care. Then they'll go into care homes with no staff because they've all been back too.

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 20 Aug 2019, 10:17am
by mercalia
pete75 wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Can we expect 1m British people currently living in Europe to be sent back here shortly after 31 October?

British people are, of course, ex-pats. They are never immigrants. They live in an ex-pat community, never an immigrant ghetto.


Most elderly and probably needing expensive health care. Then they'll go into care homes with no staff because they've all been back too.



nah they wont be allowed back as they will have their citizenship revoked by the P-woman

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 20 Aug 2019, 10:18am
by roubaixtuesday
mercalia wrote:Ad Hominem arguments fail to deal with the issues. Separate off what he said then from whether what he is saying now is true or not? I suppose then the UK govt thought that ALL parties were dealing with the GFA, the EU was only apparantly so, rather having another agenda. It is clear now that the EU is more concerned with its ideology than the GFA. It takes a bureaucratic organisation like the EU to fall to understand the problems that this has created .


The reality is this:

1. Hard Brexit demands border controls between the EU and the UK.
2. The GFA demands an open border between the EU and the UK.
3. The DUP demand no more controls between Northern Ireland and Great Britain (there are already some).

These circles simply cannot be squared. If Brexit is to happen then either:

1. Brexit must be "soft" - with customs union continuing and many elements of single market regulation to allow open borders OR
2. Northern Ireland must be a special case, remaining in CU and SM with controls in place between NI and GB OR
3. Hard border in NI and abrogate the GFA

The problems are not of the EU's making, they are the internal contradictions of Brexit.