Psamathe wrote: RRSODL wrote:
Psamathe wrote:I might be mis-understanding your post but I thought the Lib Dems were not saying they were going to revoke Article 50 now ('cos they can't) but that it was to be their policy for the coming General Election where they would hope to get a mandate.
But given we elect MPs as our representatives to make decisions in our best interests, etc. in one respect they currently have a mandate to act in our best interests and if they collectively decided that it was in our best interest to revoke Article 50 then the last General Election (which is more recent than the EU Referendum) could be said to have given them this mandate.
I'm using "mandate" in the sense of
(That does not mean I'm so happy with many of the decisions made by our politicians that I don't agree with and would argue against ..... so maybe a bit of hypocrisy on my part arguing this for something I would prefer).
The Lib Dems just voted at their annual conference to fight for revoking article 50 and they are arguing that as we stand, if Labour, SNP, etc join the Lib Dems on a vote, parliament can revoke article 50. This is clearly undemocratic hence my view this will backfire on them, having said that, I doubt very much that Labour would be up fo it.... it would be polical suicide for Corbyn.
I see your point but in a representative democracy we elect our representatives to make decisions on our behalf, in our best interests. We have elected the current set of MPs so in effect we have mandated whatever decisions they make, we have authorised them to make these decisions by electing them in the 2017 General Election (authorised by choosing those we trust to make decisions on our behalf).
Thus, if the Lib Dems campaign and change enough minds now and Article 50 is revoked before any further public vote, that is a decision made democratically by those we have mandated to make such decisions. So there is an argument that it is perfectly democratic.
But I'll confess to a degree of hypocrisy because the same argument applies to the Conservatives cutting social benefits, same argument holds for the Conservatives tax cuts for the wealthy, same for the Iraq War, etc. and I'd be denying my own "mandate" argument above for those types of decisions.
I'm sorry but I find that pill too difficult to swallow. Parties campaign on a manifesto on which voters based their vote. Are you happy to accept MPs would follow their own political agenda after you elected them? The Lib Dems have a history on having a manifesto that says one thing and doing the opposite, I remember when they promised they would Not raise students university fees and within a short time they supported that.... I do remember how betrayed young people felt at the time.
There are many issues where I'd have no issues for my MP to make a decision on my best interest, simply because either I have no information or no interest BUT Brexit is a different matter altogether, we have been bombarded with information and misinformation for the best part of 4 or 5 years and we always understood this was a decision for the people to make and we were promised by a remainer PM, David Cameron, that whatever the result of the referendum, it would be respected, furthermore, a large majority of MPs in parliament voted to aprove it.
I remember Tony Blair giving a press conference days after the referendum where he was visibly upset and said what's done is done and there's nothing we can do about it now. He understood that the people had spoken and in a democracy you follow the majority vote.
When people tell me that lots of people have changed their mind, I have no doubt, it's being 3 years but people are changing their minds on both sides of brexit, my family wants to get on with it and do it when they voted to remain and initially they feared for their jobs..... my daughter thought she would be made redundant within months but she was up to recently managing a project on brexit so the bank is definitely staying, not going to Ireland like people said in 2016. The worst part is that we waisted 2 years with Mrs May and we run out of time to negotiate a good deal.
So to summarise, I really feel strongly about MPs following an agenda that is not in the manifesto I voted for, that is not democracy, otherwise we don't need elections anymore, give MPs a permanent position, they don't need my vote to do what is in their interest.