** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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Psamathe
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Psamathe » 3 Jun 2018, 6:07pm

Ben@Forest wrote:
Psamathe wrote:From the article
...Crispin Odey, a hedge fund manager who backed the Leave campaign ...
Says it all about it (for me).


Of course George Soros, an American- Hungarian financier who is known as the world's premier currency speculator and who broke the £ in 1992 is a Remain supporter who has contributed £400,000 to Best for Britain. Would you like to try and stick a fag paper between the two?

I was not aware that Mr Soros was saying our PM should be replaced and saying who her replacement should be. I appreciated he was campaigning for UK remaining as close as possible with the EU but I feel there is a massive step between that and saying a specific individual should replace our existing PM.

Ian

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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 3 Jun 2018, 6:59pm

Psamathe wrote:
Ben@Forest wrote:
Psamathe wrote:From the articleSays it all about it (for me).


Of course George Soros, an American- Hungarian financier who is known as the world's premier currency speculator and who broke the £ in 1992 is a Remain supporter who has contributed £400,000 to Best for Britain. Would you like to try and stick a fag paper between the two?

I was not aware that Mr Soros was saying our PM should be replaced and saying who her replacement should be. I appreciated he was campaigning for UK remaining as close as possible with the EU but I feel there is a massive step between that and saying a specific individual should replace our existing PM.

Ian
What is more, Soros is campaigning in the first instance for a second referendum, as I understand it.

Anyone care to point me to where it says, "Mr Odey is calling for a second referendum"?
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
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Ben@Forest
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Ben@Forest » 3 Jun 2018, 7:27pm

661-Pete wrote:What is more, Soros is campaigning in the first instance for a second referendum, as I understand it.

Anyone care to point me to where it says, "Mr Odey is calling for a second referendum"?


No idea but Odey is at least a British citizen. He has every right to have an opinion on the leadership of any domestic party. I'm not absolutely sure why the views or money of Soros, who is an American citizen, should be relevant or applied to Brexit. Soros has manipulated markets to achieve his own ends and vast wealth. You can say this is right or wrong but to think that he does anything that does not have an eye for his or his companies' balance sheets is naive.

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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 3 Jun 2018, 7:57pm

Ben@Forest wrote: ...but to think that he does anything that does not have an eye for his or his companies' balance sheets is naive.

Is that true? Soros throws a lot of money around. Some of it is to achieve obvious political goals, but a lot of it isn't. Or, at least, the political goals must be very long term. If his funding of education is politically motivated it is rather a failure, as one of the most famous beneficiaries is his most vicious critic Viktor Orban.

Ben@Forest
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Ben@Forest » 3 Jun 2018, 8:34pm

bovlomov wrote:
Ben@Forest wrote: ...but to think that he does anything that does not have an eye for his or his companies' balance sheets is naive.

Is that true? Soros throws a lot of money around. Some of it is to achieve obvious political goals, but a lot of it isn't. Or, at least, the political goals must be very long term. If his funding of education is politically motivated it is rather a failure, as one of the most famous beneficiaries is his most vicious critic Viktor Orban.


Well Soros belongs to that school of American philanthropy. Yes he throws a lot of money around and for an American he is 'left-leaning'. But it's almost like 'the ends justifies the means'. He makes money through ruthless capitalism (he didn't just break the £ look at the Asian financial crisis in 1997) and then distributes some of his winnings to worthy causes.

It reminds me of those Guardian articles - 'I was a city accountant and now I'm an inner city teacher'. Yes you helped people to avoid taxes and massage the figures and now you have a £5 million house and a huge pension pot you can afford to do something else - but wouldn't it have been nicer if the Exchequer had got some of that tax you helped to avoid.

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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 3 Jun 2018, 9:29pm

Ben@Forest wrote: He makes money through ruthless capitalism (he didn't just break the £ look at the Asian financial crisis in 1997) and then distributes some of his winnings to worthy causes.

It reminds me of those Guardian articles - 'I was a city accountant and now I'm an inner city teacher'. Yes you helped people to avoid taxes and massage the figures and now you have a £5 million house and a huge pension pot you can afford to do something else - but wouldn't it have been nicer if the Exchequer had got some of that tax you helped to avoid.

As I understand it, Soros gives quite a lot of his ill-gotten gains to worthy causes. That doesn't justify the means by which he acquired his wealth, but my point was that there seems to be an element of philanthropy in the way he spends it.

Odey? I don't know. Perhaps he donates some of his ill-gotten gains to worthy causes and keeps quiet about it. Or perhaps he doesn't.

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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 3 Jun 2018, 9:36pm

Ben@Forest wrote:No idea but Odey is at least a British citizen.
Oh I see - it's all about being British is it? I should perhaps remind you that this brex**it affects a whole lot more countries than Little (sorry, "great") Britain. Why should it be only "british citizens" who are qualified to voice an opinion?

...Soros, who is an American citizen...
I'm watching like a hawk to see if three other little words are added to any remarks of that kind. I hope they aren't, because I wouldn't really want to have to call out this forum for anti-Semitism....
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 3 Jun 2018, 9:56pm

661-Pete wrote:
Ben@Forest wrote:No idea but Odey is at least a British citizen.
Oh I see - it's all about being British is it? I should perhaps remind you that this brex**it affects a whole lot more countries than Little (sorry, "great") Britain. Why should it be only "british citizens" who are qualified to voice an opinion?

There were accusations that Odey funded an anti-EU campaign in Ireland. If true, I suppose that would be the equivalent of Soros funding a pro-EU campaign here.

Ben@Forest
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Ben@Forest » 3 Jun 2018, 10:17pm

bovlomov wrote:Odey? I don't know. Perhaps he donates some of his ill-gotten gains to worthy causes and keeps quiet about it. Or perhaps he doesn't.


I guess Odey contributes more to charity than most of us will ever do simply because he has a 'round' of charitable activities he attends to and has a lot of money. It's what people in his position do. He probably chairs a charitable trust which distributes a lot of money to worthy causes - but he's not likely to be seen running a soup kitchen or volunteering to plant trees.

That's not really the point though - he has an opinion on the leadership of the Conservative Party and he is a British voter (as well as Tory Party donor). If we think that his influence is wrong then the influence of someone like Soros, who is not a British citizen, is definitely wrong.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Ben@Forest » 3 Jun 2018, 10:20pm

661-Pete wrote:I'm watching like a hawk to see if three other little words are added to any remarks of that kind. I hope they aren't, because I wouldn't really want to have to call out this forum for anti-Semitism...


Over many years you know the type of comments and positions I posit here. Your comment is uncalled for and I think says more about you that me. I am not continuing with this subject. You should be very careful or I will call the mods very quickly.

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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 3 Jun 2018, 10:35pm

While some criticism of Soros has been tinged with anti-semitism, I got no sense of that here. For what it's worth.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 4 Jun 2018, 12:01am

Back to the matter in hand.

To support Gove, Odey must be an outstandingly poor judge of character. I don't think I need to waste much time explaining all that's wrong with Gove. It's enough to say that he does the archetypal weedy thing of getting other people to do his dirty work - even stooping so low as to allow his wife to fight his battles. Creepy. Whatever type of intellect he has, it isn't up to weighing facts before coming to conclusions. Rather, he does it the other way around, arriving at conclusions and then finding support in out of context fragments. Few people like or trust him, inside or outside Parliament.

Odey desperately promoting Gove as saviour of his beloved Brexit... Sounds to me like a nail in the Brexit coffin?

Cyril Haearn
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cyril Haearn » 4 Jun 2018, 6:05am

Ben@Forest wrote:
bovlomov wrote:
Ben@Forest wrote: ...but to think that he does anything that does not have an eye for his or his companies' balance sheets is naive.

Is that true? Soros throws a lot of money around. Some of it is to achieve obvious political goals, but a lot of it isn't. Or, at least, the political goals must be very long term. If his funding of education is politically motivated it is rather a failure, as one of the most famous beneficiaries is his most vicious critic Viktor Orban.


Well Soros belongs to that school of American philanthropy. Yes he throws a lot of money around and for an American he is 'left-leaning'. But it's almost like 'the ends justifies the means'. He makes money through ruthless capitalism (he didn't just break the £ look at the Asian financial crisis in 1997) and then distributes some of his winnings to worthy causes.

It reminds me of those Guardian articles - 'I was a city accountant and now I'm an inner city teacher'. Yes you helped people to avoid taxes and massage the figures and now you have a £5 million house and a huge pension pot you can afford to do something else - but wouldn't it have been nicer if the Exchequer had got some of that tax you helped to avoid.

Could be a new trend, a couple of people who were successful financially downgraded
One became home secretary
One became A rich bishop of Canterbury
(sorry, the spelcheck sort of suggested that)
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Cyril Haearn
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cyril Haearn » 4 Jun 2018, 6:08am

Could I go into finance, make some millions, and donate to RoadPeace, cuk, Brake?
Nice one Cyrille, nice one son..
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pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 4 Jun 2018, 12:05pm

Ben@Forest wrote:
Psamathe wrote:From the article
...Crispin Odey, a hedge fund manager who backed the Leave campaign ...
Says it all about it (for me).


Of course George Soros, an American- Hungarian financier who is known as the world's premier currency speculator and who broke the £ in 1992 is a Remain supporter who has contributed £400,000 to Best for Britain. Would you like to try and stick a fag paper between the two?


Yep Soros has benign intentions re Brexit , Odey malignant ones.