** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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roubaixtuesday
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 11 Jul 2018, 6:10pm

Why can't the people who were on the losing side just shrug their shoulders and accept it?
Why are the people who wanted to remain going on and on about it?


Why can't the people who were on the winning side just shrug their shoulders and accept it[May's proposal]?
Why are the people who wanted to leave going on and on about it?

mercalia
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mercalia » 11 Jul 2018, 7:24pm

Michael Bentine? any one remember him?
Michael Bentine explains why it would be madness for Britain to join the Common Market


every thing was so simple in those days :(
seems like things havent changed :lol:

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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 11 Jul 2018, 10:41pm

I remember those It's A Square World animations well. Brilliant! There was usually one in each programme. A forerunner to the better-remembered Monty Python stuff from Terry Gilliam ... was he inspired by this?
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 12 Jul 2018, 9:58am

Mick F wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:
Mick F wrote:Nobody?

I would have been amazed - nay, astounded - if the vote was for Remain.
I considered it a foregone conclusion, and I'm not the only one.

I never dreamed the vote would be to leave, otherwise the whole thing would have been forgotten by now

There was really no need for a referendum at all
Oh yes there was! :shock:
Leave leave leave leave.
We shouldn't have joined in the first place and a referendum asked the population, and the majority of the population wanted to leave.

Sorry if that upsets the people who wanted to remain, but I'd have just shrugged my shoulders if the vote had gone the other way.
Why can't the people who were on the losing side just shrug their shoulders and accept it?
Why are the people who wanted to remain going on and on about it?


The leavers were going on and on about it for forty years when we we in. Now when it seems we're going out they seem to expect those who want to remain not to complain.
Why should people who believe their country is making a mistake which will have dire economic consequences just shut up and accept it?

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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 12 Jul 2018, 11:13am

Mick F wrote:and the majority? of the population? wanted to leave.

Permit me to make one or two minor corrections:
and the plurality of those who could be bothered to turn out, wanted to keep all them pesky forrinurs out.
More accurate!

Why can't the people who were on the losing side just shrug their shoulders and accept it?
Why are the people who wanted to remain going on and on about it?
Why indeed! Haven't we had enough of this tired old trope? "We won, so yah boo sucks to you!"
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

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meic
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby meic » 12 Jul 2018, 11:18am

Plurality: the number of votes cast for a candidate who receives more than any other but does not receive an absolute majority.


I didnt know what it meant, so I looked it up.
Yma o Hyd

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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 12 Jul 2018, 11:22am

meic wrote:
Plurality: the number of votes cast for a candidate who receives more than any other but does not receive an absolute majority.


I didnt know what it meant, so I looked it up.

Aha! Gotcha :lol: ! Seems I'm better informed about the language of the workings of democracy, than some folks!
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 12 Jul 2018, 12:38pm

The majority of the people who had enough of an opinion to bother to vote, voted to leave.
Biggest turnout ever - I think.

I don't care who resigns or leaves government. They're all as bad as each other and there's a never-ending stream of them.

The trouble with the remain camp IMHO, is that they were complacent in the sure knowledge that they would win. They didn't try hard enough. Not that I would have listened to them.

Lies on both/all sides I understand.
I don't care one way or another.
Just leave, and if we do, we won't be the only ones.
Mick F. Cornwall

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meic
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby meic » 12 Jul 2018, 12:41pm

I don't care who resigns or leaves government. They're all as bad as each other and there's a never-ending stream of them.

Ah but as you voted leave you are nothing more than a BJ stooge.

My voting remain, by way of contrast, in no way makes me a Cameron apologist.
Yma o Hyd

roubaixtuesday
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 12 Jul 2018, 12:54pm

The trouble with the remain camp IMHO, is that they were complacent in the sure knowledge that they would win. They didn't try hard enough. Not that I would have listened to them.


Just a teensy tad self- contradictory methinks?

I don't care one way or another.


Yet here you are.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 12 Jul 2018, 12:55pm

But "Mike" and "MickF", it's surely more than a "personality cult" issue.
Why so focussed on that?
There is a great deal at stake.

Not least amongst those things is our food supply from Europe.
You must have noticed just how much wonderful food we import from Europe?

Not everybody wants to travel or work in Europe of course, but some do.
My European citizenship is very very important to me personally. I will not have it taken away without a fight.

My views about legislation have been posted before but generally I have found/perceived that the EU is more ecologically minded and progressive than the UK Govts.

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meic
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby meic » 12 Jul 2018, 1:01pm

Why so focussed on that?

Clearly neither of us are.
A quick browse through the past 400 pages will show that others are and in a big way.

We only bring it up to point out that it isnt an important issue, just a red herring.
Yma o Hyd

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meic
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby meic » 12 Jul 2018, 1:37pm

Not least amongst those things is our food supply from Europe.
You must have noticed just how much wonderful food we import from Europe?

Not everybody wants to travel or work in Europe of course, but some do.
My European citizenship is very very important to me personally. I will not have it taken away without a fight.

My views about legislation have been posted before but generally I have found/perceived that the EU is more ecologically minded and progressive than the UK Govts.


If a country is not united in its direction, then a reasonable and democratic way to resolve the issue is to have a free public debate and then a vote.
If the vote goes against you there isnt really any point in repeating the arguments that you made before the vote and which were not accepted as a deciding issue by the majority.

It may be factual that the people who voted leave were any of the accusations pointed against them, xenophobic, stupid, racist, uneducated, gullible, fascist, little Englanders and just plain wrong. but in a democracy EVERYBODY has an equal vote. You can not expel them from the electoral booth as easily as you can remove their platform, "shadow" them in Google, close their Twitter accounts etc.
This "weakness" of democracy is also its fundamental strength.
Yma o Hyd

PDQ Mobile
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 12 Jul 2018, 2:26pm

meic wrote:
If a country is not united in its direction, then a reasonable and democratic way to resolve the issue is to have a free public debate and then a vote.
If the vote goes against you there isnt really any point in repeating the arguments that you made before the vote and which were not accepted as a deciding issue by the majority.

It may be factual that the people who voted leave were any of the accusations pointed against them, xenophobic, stupid, racist, uneducated, gullible, fascist, little Englanders and just plain wrong. but in a democracy EVERYBODY has an equal vote. You can not expel them from the electoral booth as easily as you can remove their platform, "shadow" them in Google, close their Twitter accounts etc.
This "weakness" of democracy is also its fundamental strength.

Of course.
Yet that is the reason too for the continuing "wrangle".
Never give up.

Personally I would now like another vote.
Wouldn't cost a lot.
Probably wouldn't solve anything yet would give that lauded democracy another chance to show the state of play.
I think ex-pats should have been allowed a vote on it by the way.

Additionally I have still to hear from ANY leaver cogent argument about the benefits of leaving.
Control of immigration is the "biggy", of course, but already negative effects even of that are becoming apparent. Ask a NHS recruiter.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Vorpal » 12 Jul 2018, 2:33pm

PDQ Mobile wrote: Ask a NHS recruiter.

Or a farmer who depends upon seasonal workers.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom