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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 11 Oct 2018, 8:44am
by mjr
pwa wrote:
MrsHJ wrote:
pwa wrote:Free movement of labour is my sticking point. No point leaving if we don't have control over who comes in.


It's my sticking point the other way- how dare the government take away my kids rights to work or study in Europe. As an old fogey I will reluctantly give up my chance to retire to south west France but they are offering nothing to the young people at the moment.

There is a middle ground to be had, in which migration is limited but still happens. Nobody is campaigning for zero migration. The thing that I don't want is rapid population growth and the increase in traffic and loss of quiet places that will bring. I'm very comfortable with the idea of one-in / one-out regarding migration, or even quite a lot more in than out. But when we take in hundreds of thousands more than leave, every year, that is something that will have a negative impact on our quality of life if it persists.

The UK government never used the migration controls it had. Why does anyone think this will change to our advantage just because it has more controls available? UK businesses want more migration. I predict the main effect will be more delays and inconvenience for UK citizens returning, to make it look like they're doing something. Migration theatre to accompany the security theatre.

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 11 Oct 2018, 8:51am
by brynpoeth
What is Sir Nigel F up to now?

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 11 Oct 2018, 9:42am
by Psamathe
pete75 wrote:
mr bajokoses wrote: The future of ex-EU Britain will be of little concern to the EU except for the prospect of having a deregulated tax-haven on its doorstep.

Which would also be of great concern to the great majority of UK citizens - those that are not wealthy. The likes of Rees-Mogg and the hedge fund managers who funded teh leave camp would do well out of it though.I suspect that's their ultimate aim.

Wasn't it Rese-Mogg's investment company that has moved to (Southern) Ireland because of the issues and risks of Brexit?

Ian

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 11 Oct 2018, 11:20am
by mr bajokoses
Psamathe wrote:
pete75 wrote:
mr bajokoses wrote: The future of ex-EU Britain will be of little concern to the EU except for the prospect of having a deregulated tax-haven on its doorstep.

Which would also be of great concern to the great majority of UK citizens - those that are not wealthy. The likes of Rees-Mogg and the hedge fund managers who funded teh leave camp would do well out of it though.I suspect that's their ultimate aim.

Wasn't it Rese-Mogg's investment company that has moved to (Southern) Ireland because of the issues and risks of Brexit?

Ian


What a man of the people he is.

I believe he stands to gain nicely from a deregulated labour market too, in relation to his agricultural holdings.

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 11 Oct 2018, 12:50pm
by Psamathe
mr bajokoses wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
pete75 wrote:Which would also be of great concern to the great majority of UK citizens - those that are not wealthy. The likes of Rees-Mogg and the hedge fund managers who funded teh leave camp would do well out of it though.I suspect that's their ultimate aim.

Wasn't it Rese-Mogg's investment company that has moved to (Southern) Ireland because of the issues and risks of Brexit?

Ian


What a man of the people he is.

I believe he stands to gain nicely from a deregulated labour market too, in relation to his agricultural holdings.

I understood he also stands to gain from the "bonfire of regulations" with regard to agro chemicals. EU likes to use the "precautionary principle" as far as public safety goes. But living in Westminster you are unlikely to be poisoned when your business interests spray all sorts of nasty chemicals around rural wherever.

Ian

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 11 Oct 2018, 1:15pm
by mjr
I trust we all saw the appearance of former Leaver-in-charge David Davies on ITV's Peston show last night, when he said that the benefits of Brexit had vanished and we'd be paying £39bn "for nothing"?

However, his preferred approach seemed to be to reject the Irish backstop and tear up the peace agreement. How can leaving the EU be more important than peace in all Ireland to some Leavers?

Meanwhile, a Conservative MP from Kent was getting unhappy at Commons Transport Questions that works have started to prepare the M26 to be used as an extension to the Operation Stack M20+airfield lorry parks post-Brexit. Presumably tarmacking contraflow openings and installing signs. I guess he's no longer among those who "see Brexit not just as a threat, which sadly so many people do, but also as an opportunity"!

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 11 Oct 2018, 1:50pm
by Vorpal
mjr wrote:
pwa wrote:There is a middle ground to be had, in which migration is limited but still happens. Nobody is campaigning for zero migration. The thing that I don't want is rapid population growth and the increase in traffic and loss of quiet places that will bring. I'm very comfortable with the idea of one-in / one-out regarding migration, or even quite a lot more in than out. But when we take in hundreds of thousands more than leave, every year, that is something that will have a negative impact on our quality of life if it persists.

The UK government never used the migration controls it had. Why does anyone think this will change to our advantage just because it has more controls available? UK businesses want more migration. I predict the main effect will be more delays and inconvenience for UK citizens returning, to make it look like they're doing something. Migration theatre to accompany the security theatre.

Most European countries limit who moves to them in one way or another. People need to have employment contracts, admission to a university, and/or someone who has agreed to take financial responsibility for them, if they wish to stay over a certain period (typically 6 months).
For certain jobs, they must have professional qualifications that are either certified Europe wide, or can be transferred to local certifications. Plumbers and Electricians, for example can have some difficulty transferring their professional qualifications between European countries because of differing local standards. This is not something that the UK has regulated particularly well.

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 11 Oct 2018, 3:14pm
by Psamathe
If the DUP do "pull-the-plug" and withdraw their propping-up Ms May over Brexit as they are now threatening, do we get our £bn bribe UK taxpayers forked-out back. Are bribes refundable? or would the DUP just take the money and then renege?

Ian

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 11 Oct 2018, 4:01pm
by mr bajokoses
Here's some news about a banana republic:
https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/brexit ... ming-polit

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 11 Oct 2018, 4:08pm
by kwackers
mr bajokoses wrote:Here's some news about a banana republic:

We might be a banana republic but at least we'll be a bent banana republic.

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 11 Oct 2018, 5:37pm
by mjr
kwackers wrote:
mr bajokoses wrote:Here's some news about a banana republic:

We might be a banana republic but at least we'll be a bent banana republic.

Make up your own non-offensive joke here about other slang meanings of "bent" and the DUP's policies because I really can't think of one.

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 11 Oct 2018, 7:51pm
by pete75
kwackers wrote:
mr bajokoses wrote:Here's some news about a banana republic:

We might be a banana republic but at least we'll be a bent banana republic.



Noooo the DUP won't stand for anything bent :lol:

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 11 Oct 2018, 8:35pm
by Vorpal
Psamathe wrote:If the DUP do "pull-the-plug" and withdraw their propping-up Ms May over Brexit as they are now threatening, do we get our £bn bribe UK taxpayers forked-out back. Are bribes refundable? or would the DUP just take the money and then renege?

Ian

They can't actually admit it was a bribe, so whatever DUP do, I think it is a 'sunk' cost.

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 11 Oct 2018, 9:34pm
by sizbut
Psamathe wrote:If the DUP do "pull-the-plug" and withdraw their propping-up Ms May over Brexit as they are now threatening, do we get our £bn bribe UK taxpayers forked-out back. Are bribes refundable? or would the DUP just take the money and then renege?


Strangely enough the DUP can hold up their hands and say "What money, we never got any money, never saw any money" on this one as it was added to the Northern Ireland Assembly's budget but the assembly was already dissolved and still is so the big carrier bag of cash is probably sitting under some civil servant's desk.

Now if Bojo had the guts to see things through, he'd be thinking, nice down payment on the footing for the Boris Bridge when I get in.

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Posted: 12 Oct 2018, 8:32am
by pete75
sizbut wrote:
Psamathe wrote:If the DUP do "pull-the-plug" and withdraw their propping-up Ms May over Brexit as they are now threatening, do we get our £bn bribe UK taxpayers forked-out back. Are bribes refundable? or would the DUP just take the money and then renege?


Strangely enough the DUP can hold up their hands and say "What money, we never got any money, never saw any money" on this one as it was added to the Northern Ireland Assembly's budget but the assembly was already dissolved and still is so the big carrier bag of cash is probably sitting under some civil servant's desk.

Now if Bojo had the guts to see things through, he'd be thinking, nice down payment on the footing for the Boris Bridge when I get in.


Didn't Westminster impose a budget on NI - otherwise nothing would be spent there. This money will have gone into that.