** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 19 Oct 2018, 4:41pm

Mick F wrote:Map of Europe?

When I woz at skool, Russia was in Asia, and Turkey was in Asia Minor.
What's changed? Continental drift?


Russia west of the Urals is in Europe, some of Turkey is in Europe. Oh and Cathay is now called China. :wink:

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 19 Oct 2018, 4:48pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:
pete75 wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:It was though 10 or 20 years ago.
As I said one of the highest in Europe.
It was for years higher than that of the UK.

Still is all of those things according to the map.


That map is from 6 years ago. There's over 20 countries with a higher suicide rate than Switzerland. So hardly one of the highest in Europe. Perhaps you could produce relative figures for European countries which may prove your point.


But many countries higher are Eastern block.
Considering the relative wealth of Switzerland the rate is pretty high.
And I am correct in saying it used to be even higher. Vorpal cites a paper.

Still the basic point was that wealth alone does not equal happiness.
It is in these modern monetarist "The Apprentice" times a somewhat unfashionable idea.
Yet I know it to be true.


So what - Eastern block countries are in Europe. They are people the same as us - though I guess some who describe countries as Eastern block regard their inhabitants as somewhat inferior to westerners. I know quite a few people from so called Eastern block countries living in the UK. It will doubtless surprise you to know that many are very intelligent and well educated.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mjr » 19 Oct 2018, 5:29pm

pete75 wrote:So what - Eastern block countries are in Europe. They are people the same as us - though I guess some who describe countries as Eastern block regard their inhabitants as somewhat inferior to westerners. I know quite a few people from so called Eastern block countries living in the UK. It will doubtless surprise you to know that many are very intelligent and well educated.

Ones I know also see "Eastern block" as very outdated, bordering on insulting them as being stuck in the 70s/80s, and much prefer their country to be described as Baltic, Balkan or Central European (depending which it is). Eastern Europe is basically Russia.
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 19 Oct 2018, 6:23pm

pete75 wrote:
So what - Eastern block countries are in Europe. They are people the same as us - though I guess some who describe countries as Eastern block regard their inhabitants as somewhat inferior to westerners. I know quite a few people from so called Eastern block countries living in the UK. It will doubtless surprise you to know that many are very intelligent and well educated.


I have no doubt that is the case.
And it does not "surprise" me at all.


Perhaps I should have said Western Europe?
For it would seem there is a relationship with (old?) political systems.

The fact remains that rich Switzerland has quite a high suicide rate. Higher than some of it's poorer neighbors.
The reasons are complex (aren't they always) but that the Swiss are in some way happier because of their wealth is at least partially refuted by those suicide stats.

I wanted merely to say that Farage was wrong about the guaranteed happiness through wealth.

He likes Switzerland, he is on record as saying he might apply for citizenship.
For tax reasons no doubt.
Though they might not accept him!

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mercalia » 19 Oct 2018, 6:44pm

so the March to Freedom starts? tomorrow

"Meet us at midday outside the Grosvenor House Hotel on the southbound carriageway of Park Lane, London W1 – we’ll be handing out Final Say T-shirts, and a photographer will be looking out for the best placards. See you there!"

https://www.peoples-vote.uk/march

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 19 Oct 2018, 7:02pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:
pete75 wrote:
So what - Eastern block countries are in Europe. They are people the same as us - though I guess some who describe countries as Eastern block regard their inhabitants as somewhat inferior to westerners. I know quite a few people from so called Eastern block countries living in the UK. It will doubtless surprise you to know that many are very intelligent and well educated.


I have no doubt that is the case.
And it does not "surprise" me at all.


Perhaps I should have said Western Europe?
For it would seem there is a relationship with (old?) political systems.

The fact remains that rich Switzerland has quite a high suicide rate. Higher than some of it's poorer neighbors.
The reasons are complex (aren't they always) but that the Swiss are in some way happier because of their wealth is at least partially refuted by those suicide stats.

I wanted merely to say that Farage was wrong about the guaranteed happiness through wealth.

He likes Switzerland, he is on record as saying he might apply for citizenship.
For tax reasons no doubt.
Though they might not accept him!


Well you do surprise me after dismissing those nations as "eastern block" as if that makes them somehow inferior.

One thing about Switzerland is they have high levels of gun ownership - here in Lincolnshire the favourite method to do away with yourself is a twelve bore shot through the roof of the mouth. It's a fairly certain way of topping yourself unlike taking an overdose where the attempted suicide is often foiled through medical intervention. We had three in three weeks around here a few years ago. One a failed businessman, one due to marital breakdown and one a 17 year old who was being bullied and mocked at school. Where there is access to firearms suicide attempts are generally successful.

Switzerland is also a country where assisted suicide is legal for the terminally ill. People from here go to Swiss clinics for that very purpose - should they be included in UK or Swiss suicide statistics.
In any case I don't think people commit suicide just because they are unhappy as you seem to imply. It's more often the result of things like clinical depression which are a very different thing and is usually unrelated to wealth or lack of it.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 19 Oct 2018, 7:30pm

No intentional slighting of Eastern Europeans.

What I knew was that Switzerland had extremely high levels of suicide in the 1980's - some of the highest in the western world.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Switzerland

Interestingly, and relevant to the thread, since aligning more closely with the EU (Schengen etc) levels have dropped!!
Could there be a vote winner in there??

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby MrsHJ » 19 Oct 2018, 7:32pm

mercalia wrote:so the March to Freedom starts? tomorrow

"Meet us at midday outside the Grosvenor House Hotel on the southbound carriageway of Park Lane, London W1 – we’ll be handing out Final Say T-shirts, and a photographer will be looking out for the best placards. See you there!"

https://www.peoples-vote.uk/march


I have struggled with a new vote.

I thought the government would head down some sort of rational path i.e. Norway plus. As they seem to be going total fruit loop though I've signed up for the march-only to be struck down by another lot of vertigo (nothing serious but horrible for walking and crowds). So,I'll be supporting in spirit tomorrow.

If the leave contingent get their act together for a thought through approach most of them can support and sell to enough of those who voted remain let me know-otherwise this seems a pretty sensible move to me. Anything on the ballot paper must be executable though (no fantasies). Eg Norway plus CU, Canada (but with a NI solution) or remain.

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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 20 Oct 2018, 12:05pm

pete75 wrote:
Mick F wrote:Map of Europe?

When I woz at skool, Russia was in Asia, and Turkey was in Asia Minor.
What's changed? Continental drift?


Russia west of the Urals is in Europe, some of Turkey is in Europe. Oh and Cathay is now called China. :wink:

:lol: :lol:
Mick F. Cornwall

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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 20 Oct 2018, 12:21pm

Mick F wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Mick F wrote:Map of Europe?

When I woz at skool, Russia was in Asia, and Turkey was in Asia Minor.
What's changed? Continental drift?


Russia west of the Urals is in Europe, some of Turkey is in Europe. Oh and Cathay is now called China. :wink:

:lol: :lol:

So much has changed. My old school atlas, from primary school, had most of Africa coloured pink, with countries like Gold Coast, Northern and Southern Rhodesia, Nyasaland, Somaliland Protectorate, etc.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 20 Oct 2018, 3:10pm

661-Pete wrote:
Mick F wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Russia west of the Urals is in Europe, some of Turkey is in Europe. Oh and Cathay is now called China. :wink:

:lol: :lol:

So much has changed. My old school atlas, from primary school, had most of Africa coloured pink, with countries like Gold Coast, Northern and Southern Rhodesia, Nyasaland, Somaliland Protectorate, etc.


Yep but some don't know that yet. Doesn't Rees-Mogg think the EU consists of The Holy Roman Empire, Gaul, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and the Austro-Hungarian empire. :lol:

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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 20 Oct 2018, 7:56pm

Just when you think it couldn't get any worse - now the brex**iteers are bombarding Facebook with political ads. Just days after FB announces new strict rules on political advertising.

No scruples at all...

At least the march today went well. Sadly Mrs P and I didn't turn up for this one - we didn't feel up to it and anyway it's those damned replacement buses again on the railway....

If the Gov. really doesn't listen, the big fear is rioting in the streets - or even civil war...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 20 Oct 2018, 8:42pm

661-Pete wrote:
If the Gov. really doesn't listen, the big fear is rioting in the streets - or even civil war...


Clearly illustrating that many dont understand what democracy means. Basically the Remainers world is just like the EU, undemocratic.

Al
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horizon
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby horizon » 20 Oct 2018, 8:43pm

Britain belongs to the EU. Hmmm. Funny thing, language.
Let's just get Brexit done so that we can get on with the important job of re-joining the EU!

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 20 Oct 2018, 8:55pm

al_yrpal wrote:Clearly illustrating that many dont understand what democracy means. Basically the Remainers world is just like the EU, undemocratic.
"Democracy" comes from two Greek words: δημος="people" and κρατία="rule". That's just what Remainers and others on the People's Vote march are asking for: let the people decide. And let them decide now: not two years in the past. Got it?
Last edited by 661-Pete on 20 Oct 2018, 8:56pm, edited 1 time in total.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).