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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Posted: 15 Nov 2018, 3:17pm
by Mick F
reohn2 wrote:Mick F wrote:What do all you Remainers actually really honestly want?
This remainer wants to stay in the EU and make efforts to change it for the better from within,that said it's not doing such a bad job presently all things considered.
Could I ask why you want to leave exactly?
In a nutshell, I'm sick of it.
I never wanted to join in the first place. We were fine before, and we'll be fine after we leave.
Taking our fisheries back is a major issue.
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Posted: 15 Nov 2018, 3:23pm
by roubaixtuesday
Taking our fisheries back is a major issue.
Note, as posted upthread:
(1) During the transition we explicitly cede all control to the EU on quotas and access
(2) Quotas will continue in the ultimate deal - from the political declaration:
"Within the context of the overall economic partnership, establishment of a new fisheries agreement on, inter alia, access to waters and quota shares, to be in place in time to be used for determining fishing opportunities for the first year after the transition period"
So you can be very sure Brexit will not deliver what you want.
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Posted: 15 Nov 2018, 3:35pm
by Mick F
No, not correct.
The Brexit deal being proposed will not give me what I want.
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Posted: 15 Nov 2018, 3:36pm
by mjr
Mick F wrote:We were fine before, and we'll be fine after we leave.
We'll be back to being the "sick man of Europe" again? Deliberate devaluation of the pound, three day week and IMF bailout?
https://www.economist.com/buttonwoods-n ... -of-europe
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Posted: 15 Nov 2018, 3:48pm
by pete75
Mick F wrote:reohn2 wrote:Mick F wrote:What do all you Remainers actually really honestly want?
This remainer wants to stay in the EU and make efforts to change it for the better from within,that said it's not doing such a bad job presently all things considered.
Could I ask why you want to leave exactly?
In a nutshell, I'm sick of it.
I never wanted to join in the first place. We were fine before, and we'll be fine after we leave.
Taking our fisheries back is a major issue.
Back? We lost most of them when we lost the cod war. That's what caused the demise of the large Grimsby and Hull fleets.
Currently the UK fishing industry has a turnover of about £750 million a year - in other words is economically almost irrelevant and employing under 12,000 people.
Strange it is that politicians of the right are so concerned about this small number of jobs yet didn't give a damn about getting rid of almost a quarter of a million coal miners jobs between 1980 and 2005.
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Posted: 15 Nov 2018, 3:49pm
by mercalia
we never where the sick man of europe? wasnt that Turkey?
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Posted: 15 Nov 2018, 3:54pm
by pete75
They've already got a three day week at Jaguar Land Rover. Wonder if their UK manufacturing base will survive Brexit even if JLR themselves survive.
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Posted: 15 Nov 2018, 3:58pm
by roubaixtuesday
Mick F wrote:No, not correct.
The Brexit deal being proposed will not give me what I want.
Yes, that's a fair comment.
However, on fisheries, there is really no conceivable set of circumstances where the UK gets all fishing rights for UK boats.
- the market for these fish is mainly in the EU. They'll only give us market access if we give them some fishing rights
- the fishing industry is insignificant, but symbolically important. So we get a very good deal overall by ceding some fishing rights. That's what originally happened when we entered the CFP; if anything the drivers are for even more of the same now.
- the drop in employment in fishing is really down to technology and stock depletion rather than quotas. Fundamentally we can empty the seas of fish with very few people using modern technology.
Those selling Brexit as a cure for fishing communities problems are exploiting people by peddling comforting lies. And they know it.
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Posted: 15 Nov 2018, 4:00pm
by Bonefishblues
pete75 wrote:They've already got a three day week at Jaguar Land Rover. Wonder if their UK manufacturing base will survive Brexit even if JLR themselves survive.
I think a big chunk of that is they have got their range wrong, or at least the engines, still being heavily reliant on diesel at a time when nobody wants 'em.
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Posted: 15 Nov 2018, 4:00pm
by mr bajokoses
Mick F wrote:I never wanted to join in the first place. We were fine before, and we'll be fine after we leave.
Taking our fisheries back is a major issue.
So you want a return to the past. Have you asked if the rest of the world wants to go back in time too?
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Posted: 15 Nov 2018, 4:01pm
by roubaixtuesday
mercalia wrote:we never where the sick man of europe? wasnt that Turkey?
Throughout the late 1960s and 1970s, the United Kingdom was frequently called the "sick man of Europe", first by foreign commentators, and later at home by critics of the third Wilson/Callaghan ministry, because of industrial strife and poor economic performance compared to other European countries
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sick_man_of_Europe
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Posted: 15 Nov 2018, 4:12pm
by merseymouth
Hello there, I do not want to have any part of an E.U. with a common armed service with Germany having a controlling hand!
My late Father & Grandfather had to help put them back in the box, I don't want any grand-children to have to go through such a process again?
Super Germany is never a good thing. MM
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Posted: 15 Nov 2018, 4:22pm
by mr bajokoses
Brexit seems as good a way as any of bringing conditions conducive to the outbreak of war.
In particular we seem very cavalier about what happens on the island of Ireland.
I am sure that whatever provocations our most rabid ERG and leave politicians throw at them - and there have been many to date, EU diplomats will respond with patience, good manners and great diplomacy. They seem to have much less appetite for war than us.
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Posted: 15 Nov 2018, 4:24pm
by pete75
Bonefishblues wrote:pete75 wrote:They've already got a three day week at Jaguar Land Rover. Wonder if their UK manufacturing base will survive Brexit even if JLR themselves survive.
I think a big chunk of that is they have got their range wrong, or at least the engines, still being heavily reliant on diesel at a time when nobody wants 'em.
Talking of engines they're hoping to buy them from their main competitor, BMW, in future.
Isn't every JLR product available with a petrol engine? Anyhow the fuss about diesels and nitrous oxide is about old technology. Current diesels are fine. When Which magazine tested the current Mercedes E220 they found it produced less NOx than the average petrol car they test. They do their own independent pollutant tests on a variety of roads and in a variety of conditions and don't rely on the manufacturers figures
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Posted: 15 Nov 2018, 4:27pm
by mr bajokoses
Donald Tusk, today:
The EU is prepared for a final deal with the United Kingdom in November.
We are also prepared for a no-deal scenario but of course we are best prepared for a no-Brexit scenario.
A friend and gentleman. How foolish would we be not to accept this gracious offer?