** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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Bonefishblues
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Bonefishblues » 15 Nov 2018, 4:30pm

pete75 wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
pete75 wrote:

They've already got a three day week at Jaguar Land Rover. Wonder if their UK manufacturing base will survive Brexit even if JLR themselves survive.

I think a big chunk of that is they have got their range wrong, or at least the engines, still being heavily reliant on diesel at a time when nobody wants 'em.


Talking of engines they're hoping to buy them from their main competitor, BMW, in future.
Isn't every JLR product available with a petrol engine? Anyhow the fuss about diesels and nitrous oxide is about old technology. Current diesels are fine. When Which magazine tested the current Mercedes E220 they found it produced less NOx than the average petrol car they test. They do their own independent pollutant tests on a variety of roads and in a variety of conditions and don't rely on the manufacturers figures


...because diesel bad
...because diesel bad
...because diesel bad

Repeated ad nauseum! Don't let facts get anywhere near this, for goodness sake.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43756209
Last edited by Bonefishblues on 15 Nov 2018, 4:31pm, edited 1 time in total.

kwackers
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 15 Nov 2018, 4:30pm

merseymouth wrote:Hello there, I do not want to have any part of an E.U. with a common armed service with Germany having a controlling hand!
My late Father & Grandfather had to help put them back in the box, I don't want any grand-children to have to go through such a process again?
Super Germany is never a good thing. MM

What controlling hand?
The Germans are part of NATO, don't see anyone complaining there.

Might be worth reading up on the wars to see why Germany got out of "the box" to start with.
Then take a look at us and ask yourself how many boxes are we currently ticking?
(Not that we've got much to be proud about with a few centuries of putting other cultures down.)

Chances of war are reduced by cooperation, not increased.

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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 15 Nov 2018, 4:37pm

merseymouth wrote:Hello there, I do not want to have any part of an E.U. with a common armed service with Germany having a controlling hand!
My late Father & Grandfather had to help put them back in the box, I don't want any grand-children to have to go through such a process again?
Super Germany is never a good thing. MM
This is the sort of xenophobia and Little-Englander attitude that helped to fuel the disastrous outcome in June 2016. Hopefully there are far fewer of this mindset now. Of course there'll always be a rump of petty intolerance.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

kwackers
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 15 Nov 2018, 4:38pm

Bonefishblues wrote:Repeated ad nauseum! Don't let facts get anywhere near this, for goodness sake.

Diesels have a bad name, they're done for now.

It's not just the emissions scandals. People are more alert to the emissions cars put out and they don't have to look hard to find a diesel blowing crap out the back - and often a fairly recent one too.
Then there are the falling resale values, places where they're no longer allowed etc etc. All of which pervades the public conscious and it becomes self fulfilling.

Given enough time they might recover but IC in general doesn't have that long so I doubt there'll ever be a decent market for diesel again.

<edit> Why is "s.m.e.g" a naughty word on this forum (and crap isn't)? You're not allowed to tell anyone you bought a [inappropriate word removed] fridge???

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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 15 Nov 2018, 4:47pm

mr bajokoses wrote:
Mick F wrote:I never wanted to join in the first place. We were fine before, and we'll be fine after we leave.

Taking our fisheries back is a major issue.


So you want a return to the past. Have you asked if the rest of the world wants to go back in time too?
Who's talking of returning to the past?
Not me.
Mick F. Cornwall

Oldjohnw
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Oldjohnw » 15 Nov 2018, 4:49pm

I wonder if saying that diesels are fine because they produce less now than petrol is a bit like saying Sadam was ok because he killed less than Assad.
John

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mjr
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mjr » 15 Nov 2018, 4:54pm

merseymouth wrote:Hello there, I do not want to have any part of an E.U. with a common armed service with Germany having a controlling hand!
My late Father & Grandfather had to help put them back in the box, I don't want any grand-children to have to go through such a process again?
Super Germany is never a good thing. MM

1. The latest common army ideas originate from France, not Germany.
2. None of Germany's neighbours would allow it to have a controlling hand either.
3. Modern Germany would probably be supremely uncomfortable about it too - its joint missions (European Corps, the German/Dutch Corps, the Franco-German Brigade and so on) have tended to have rotating commands at most.
4. My Grandfather and Great-grandfather served in the world wars, but against the precursor states of the Federal Republic of Germany.
5. The best thing for peace would be for a strong UK inside the EU, instead of standing outside niggling at it as Perfidious Albion so often has.
6. Xenophobic Britain is never a good thing either. MJ

(edited 4 to correct to "served" because I do not remember for sure the details of their service and have not checked yet)
Last edited by mjr on 15 Nov 2018, 5:43pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mercalia
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mercalia » 15 Nov 2018, 5:08pm

"Will the UK be free to make trade deals with other countries? Peter Hodge

Andrew Walker, Economics correspondent replies:

The full answer is complicated. The short answer is: it looks like it would be difficult.

First let's suppose we do end up activating the Northern Ireland backstop. That involves what the draft agreement calls a Single Customs Territory for the UK and the EU, which appears to be a customs union in all but name.

In particular it says: "Under no circumstances may the United Kingdom apply to its customs territory a customs tariff which is lower than the Common Customs Tariff (applied by the EU) for any good or import from any third country."

That rules out the bread and butter of trade agreements, negotiating the reduction or elimination of tariffs. It might still be possible to do deals on services and also investment, which is an area that has often been added on to trade agreements.


so thats that then?

merseymouth
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby merseymouth » 15 Nov 2018, 5:46pm

Hello, calling me a xenophobe is a cheap shot! As for reading more about the two world wars, I think my collection of books covering an extensive range of conflicts & disputes is well read?
Don't get me on to the German involvement in arms for insurgents on both sides in the Island of Ireland.
We have no influence in the E.U., even wise words are ignored, why should we stay in such a club? IGICB MM

slowster
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby slowster » 15 Nov 2018, 6:05pm

merseymouth wrote:As for reading more about the two world wars, I think my collection of books covering an extensive range of conflicts & disputes is well read?

I'm curious, which specific books in your collection about the two world wars are you referring to in response to Kwackers' comment?

djnotts
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby djnotts » 15 Nov 2018, 6:06pm

"We have no influence in the E.U."

We certainly had an influence on adding ever more member states - a key UK policy under numerous administrations (single, large, market being considered a good thing for a small island trading nation back then!).

We did have less influence in some admin areas simply because we were never able to provide the number of secondees that we could have done.

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mjr
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mjr » 15 Nov 2018, 6:11pm

merseymouth wrote:We have no influence in the E.U., even wise words are ignored, why should we stay in such a club? IGICB MM

(I didn't call MM a xenophobe or whatever so I'm ignoring that part of the reply.)

I suspect there's no link or explanation because reality is the opposite. We had plenty of influence - https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-be ... influence/ - why are we leaving a club which agreed with us 95% of the time?

I searched for IGICB and 3 of the top 5 results were merseymouth!
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Psamathe
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Psamathe » 15 Nov 2018, 6:20pm

mjr wrote:
merseymouth wrote:We have no influence in the E.U., even wise words are ignored, why should we stay in such a club? IGICB MM

(I didn't call MM a xenophobe or whatever so I'm ignoring that part of the reply.)

I suspect there's no link or explanation because reality is the opposite. We had plenty of influence - https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-be ... influence/ - why are we leaving a club which agreed with us 95% of the time?

I searched for IGICB and 3 of the top 5 results were merseymouth!

I have no idea what IGICB means. Enlighten me? OIWRITD

Ian

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 15 Nov 2018, 7:14pm

merseymouth wrote:Hello, calling me a xenophobe is a cheap shot! As for reading more about the two world wars, I think my collection of books covering an extensive range of conflicts & disputes is well read?
Don't get me on to the German involvement in arms for insurgents on both sides in the Island of Ireland.
We have no influence in the E.U., even wise words are ignored, why should we stay in such a club? IGICB MM


No one called you a xenophobe. Someone said the attitude displayed in your post was xenophobic.

Germany has been supplying the Protestant and Catholic paramilitaries in Ulster with weapons? What's your evidence for this?

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 15 Nov 2018, 7:15pm

Psamathe wrote:I didn't hear it but reported the standards of accuracy politicians feel bound by
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2018/nov/15/brexit-deal-theresa-may-takes-agreement-to-parliament-politics-live wrote:On Sky News Rory Stewart, the justice minister, is now defending Theresa May’s Brexit plan. Hopefully he will make a better job of if than he did when he was on Radio 5 Live earlier, and went full Donald Trump, making up a statistic in a bid to prove that the deal is popular.

Radio 5 Live on BBC Sounds (@bbc5live) wrote:“80% of the British public support this deal….
“I’m producing a number to try to illustrate what I believe…
“I totally apologise for that and I take that back”


He felt he could completely make up a number to support his case, no fact or anything to back it up!

Ian

What makes you think Tories and their supporters ever do anything else?
The Tories on this thread do exactly the same thing.
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