** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 16 Nov 2018, 8:55am

al_yrpal wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:I think that the fishing industry is symbolically significant for the UK, rather in excess of its economic significance.


I believe thats true, but symbolically its part of our resources and teritory. We should be in control of all aspects of it, thats part of what sovereignty means. There are mutual fishing agreements in place regarding our fishing grounds and they may endure, but thats up to us not the EU.

Seems to me that if you believe in Remain here you can make all sorts of wild unsubstantiated assertions. There is plenty of current protests from the fishing industry, read the newspaper reports this week.

Al

OK,I'll play.
How do you see the fishing industry improving outside the EU?

As I'm typing I'm listening to leave voters being interviewed,most are saying time over again they'd vote remain,because of the outright lies told to them by them the leave campaign.
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Bonefishblues
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Bonefishblues » 16 Nov 2018, 8:58am

reohn2 wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:I think that the fishing industry is symbolically significant for the UK, rather in excess of its economic significance.


I believe thats true, but symbolically its part of our resources and teritory. We should be in control of all aspects of it, thats part of what sovereignty means. There are mutual fishing agreements in place regarding our fishing grounds and they may endure, but thats up to us not the EU.

Seems to me that if you believe in Remain here you can make all sorts of wild unsubstantiated assertions. There is plenty of current protests from the fishing industry, read the newspaper reports this week.

Al

OK,I'll play.
How do you see the fishing industry improving outside the EU?

As I'm typing I'm listening to leave voters being interviewed,most are saying time over again they'd vote remain,because of the outright lies told to them by them the leave campaign.

It's not about that at all, in the main.

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 16 Nov 2018, 9:01am

Bonefishblues wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:
I believe thats true, but symbolically its part of our resources and teritory. We should be in control of all aspects of it, thats part of what sovereignty means. There are mutual fishing agreements in place regarding our fishing grounds and they may endure, but thats up to us not the EU.

Seems to me that if you believe in Remain here you can make all sorts of wild unsubstantiated assertions. There is plenty of current protests from the fishing industry, read the newspaper reports this week.

Al

OK,I'll play.
How do you see the fishing industry improving outside the EU?

As I'm typing I'm listening to leave voters being interviewed,most are saying time over again they'd vote remain,because of the outright lies told to them by them the leave campaign.

It's not about that at all, in the main.

No,I didnt think was,so what's point of all the blather about the fishing industry?
I don't think symbolism is worth a light.
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francovendee
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby francovendee » 16 Nov 2018, 9:02am

Whilst I admire the courage of fishermen I think it will ultimately be finished as an industry. I liken it to factory farming, efficient but very bad overall. The fishing fleet are factories on the water, scooping up everything in their path. In effect far too efficient. Small boats with older technology left some fish escape. Fishermen are their own worse enemy and will decimate fish stocks and hence see their jobs decline irrespective of quotas.

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al_yrpal
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 16 Nov 2018, 9:03am

Psamathe wrote: the UK had their say in management of a resource that cannot effectively be managed on a local scale.

We were members, had elected representatives in a democratic process, etc.

Ian


Uh! According to that we are only able to have a 1/27 voice in the management of OUR marine territory! Perhaps we should just hand over the whole of our land mass too? How about giving them Scotland or Yorkshire?

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. Make a difference...

roubaixtuesday
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 16 Nov 2018, 9:08am

al_yrpal wrote:Uh! According to that we are only able to have a 1/27 voice in the management of OUR marine territory! Perhaps we should just hand over the whole of our land mass too? How about giving them Scotland or Yorkshire?


How about engaging in the discussion rather than diversion into hyperbolic digressions?

It's been patiently pointed out to you that technology, ecology and above all realpolitik dictates that brexit will not result in a revival of the fishing industry.

Your response to this is not to disagree but rather claim it's vital that it's somehow *our* decline that matters, and this constitutes "sovereignty".

This ideological certainty regardless of reality, and divorced from a globally connected world is exactly what has driven our government to the utter chaos we see today.

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al_yrpal
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 16 Nov 2018, 9:12am

francovendee wrote:Whilst I admire the courage of fishermen I think it will ultimately be finished as an industry. I liken it to factory farming, efficient but very bad overall. The fishing fleet are factories on the water, scooping up everything in their path. In effect far too efficient. Small boats with older technology left some fish escape. Fishermen are their own worse enemy and will decimate fish stocks and hence see their jobs decline irrespective of quotas.


Managing our own marine territory is surely a new opportunity to manage it better and let our fish stocks recover. More marine conservation areas, reforming the by catch scandal etc. Opportunities to help revive run down coastal communities with a resurgent fishing industry. Needs some imagination and enterprise.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. Make a difference...

kwackers
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 16 Nov 2018, 9:13am

al_yrpal wrote:Needs some imagination and enterprise.

I think I've spotted the flaw.

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Cugel
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cugel » 16 Nov 2018, 9:15am

reohn2 wrote:
661-Pete wrote:......To liken the present government in Germany to the nazi regime is sickening......

He's not alone,there's anther poster who's yer pal :wink: and who reckons Germany want to rule he world :?

Here's an illuminating article describing the Brexit anti-German xenophobic mental twitch and it's queer history. These paranoid would-be martyr emotions might be summed up as, "Very interestink - but stoopit!" :-)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... tan-otoole

Cugel

Bonefishblues
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Bonefishblues » 16 Nov 2018, 9:23am

reohn2 wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
reohn2 wrote:OK,I'll play.
How do you see the fishing industry improving outside the EU?

As I'm typing I'm listening to leave voters being interviewed,most are saying time over again they'd vote remain,because of the outright lies told to them by them the leave campaign.

It's not about that at all, in the main.

No,I didnt think was,so what's point of all the blather about the fishing industry?
I don't think symbolism is worth a light.

I think to some it is, and I understand that.

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 16 Nov 2018, 9:25am

al_yrpal wrote:
Psamathe wrote: the UK had their say in management of a resource that cannot effectively be managed on a local scale.

We were members, had elected representatives in a democratic process, etc.

Ian


Uh! According to that we are only able to have a 1/27 voice in the management of OUR marine territory! Perhaps we should just hand over the whole of our land mass too? How about giving them Scotland or Yorkshire?

Al

Yet more of a little england outlook :?
The EU is for the good of all it's members so they ALL prosper.Of course when you have such a jaundiced out look of the EU to think it's a shop front for Germany to rule the world what can we expect.
We've not given away anything,we bought into a trading block withnrules for all it's members.
Tell us what you plan is for the channel imp/export or NI.Those are the real issues,not trying to make it sound as if the UK is diminished by being an EU member.
What's diminished the UK over the past 30 odd years as been the continuation of a neoliberal agenda and concentration of evermore wealth into the hands of the few whilst the rest squabble for the crumbs,that has been made available by successive rightwing governments who've been the source and beneficiaries of such a system.
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roubaixtuesday
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 16 Nov 2018, 9:28am

al_yrpal wrote:Managing our own marine territory is surely a new opportunity to manage it better and let our fish stocks recover. More marine conservation areas, reforming the by catch scandal etc. Opportunities to help revive run down coastal communities with a resurgent fishing industry. Needs some imagination and enterprise.

Al


As already pointed out, currently:

- the Brexit transition deal explicitly cedes all control to the EU
- the political declaration explicitly links future agreement on quotas to the "context of the overall economic partnership"

In any other scenario, the realpolitik is that no government will defend fishing quotas to the detriment of all other sectors, and neither should they.

This Brexit will not result in a "resurgent fishing industry" - technology means that fishing is far more efficient than it was in the pretended golden past. There's already nothing stopping more Marine Conservation Zones now - they are already in the gift of the UK govt.

It's a red herring.

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 16 Nov 2018, 9:33am

al_yrpal wrote:
francovendee wrote:Whilst I admire the courage of fishermen I think it will ultimately be finished as an industry. I liken it to factory farming, efficient but very bad overall. The fishing fleet are factories on the water, scooping up everything in their path. In effect far too efficient. Small boats with older technology left some fish escape. Fishermen are their own worse enemy and will decimate fish stocks and hence see their jobs decline irrespective of quotas.


Managing our own marine territory is surely a new opportunity to manage it better and let our fish stocks recover. More marine conservation areas, reforming the by catch scandal etc. Opportunities to help revive run down coastal communities with a resurgent fishing industry. Needs some imagination and enterprise.

Al

We trashed the fish stocks before we were in the EU,those stocks ,through EU control,are now recovering,and yes the system isnt perfect but it's more perfect than it was when we controlled our own fish stocks!
I think it's as Kwackers says I think I've spotted the flaw :?
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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 16 Nov 2018, 9:37am

reohn2 wrote:
Mick F wrote:
reohn2 wrote:This remainer wants to stay in the EU and make efforts to change it for the better from within,that said it's not doing such a bad job presently all things considered.

Could I ask why you want to leave exactly?
In a nutshell, I'm sick of it.

That isn't an answer

I never wanted to join in the first place. We were fine before, and we'll be fine after we leave
.
But we weren't fine before,we in a bad way before,and if we leave we'll be in a bad way again.


Taking our fisheries back is a major issue.

No it isn't,read the last few pages of this thread.
Sorry, I'm not on this thread often enough to keep up with the pages and pages of stuff. I had to go back three pages to get to this! :D

Why do I want to leave exactly?
I'm sick of it, that's why.
Should you have asked why WE should leave? - it would have provoked a different reply.

Speak to the fishermen, not the politicians.

We were fine before we joined the EU despite what people are saying on here and despite what politicians say. Common Market was good, but ever closer union is not good.

Go back to the Common Market and I'd be happier.
Mick F. Cornwall

roubaixtuesday
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 16 Nov 2018, 9:42am

Mick,

the world has changed a lot since 1975. Seriously.