The Migrant Children in Europe - what to do about them?

[reohn2]

Not on topic but you need the missile system to keep your self important place as an " important person" in the world order.

Fur coat and no knickers?

[Ben@Forest]

There seems to be a lot of conflation between the Kindertransport and granting children refugee status now. Under an Act of Parliament the Kinderstransport only granted the temporary admission of unaccompanied Jewish children. Even if war was coming few people thought that so many of their families would be wiped out - the idea was that they would go home, and indeed some did, and post-war I think quite a lot relocated to the new state of Israel, whether with surviving relatives or not.

On the other hand granting children refugee status now means granting 'an indefinite leave to remain'. There is therefore already the anticipation they will never go back to their country of origin. I'm not saying this is wrong, though I do agree that all refugees would be better off if they can be accommodated close to their own regions or countries to re-occupy them when they can. But we should not make a tenuous and inaccurate link between the provisions of the Kindertransport and refugee status today.

[Vorpal]

There seems to be a lot of conflation between the Kindertransport and granting children refugee status now. Under an Act of Parliament the Kinderstransport only granted the temporary admission of unaccompanied Jewish children. Even if war was coming few people thought that so many of their families would be wiped out - the idea was that they would go home, and indeed some did, and post-war I think quite a lot relocated to the new state of Israel, whether with surviving relatives or not.

On the other hand granting children refugee status now means granting 'an indefinite leave to remain'. There is therefore already the anticipation they will never go back to their country of origin. I'm not saying this is wrong, though I do agree that all refugees would be better off if they can be accommodated close to their own regions or countries to re-occupy them when they can. But we should not make a tenuous and inaccurate link between the provisions of the Kindertransport and refugee status today.

Actually, I think this is a more interesting question in many ways than the immediate needs of refugees. I don't have a problem with 'indefinite leave to remain'. In many cases wars carry on for years, or may, in fact, never be resolved. Consider West Bank refugees, for example.

However, when conflict has ended, and the opportunity to return exists for some refugees, there should clearly be programs which encourage them to return and help rebuild or establish new societies.

Countries recovering from recent conflict need their intellectuals and professionals to return, but all too often then have established lives and careers in new countries, and are not inclined to return.

How should hat be managed? Should there be some sort of resettlement fund? If so, to who should it go? And should we somehow evaluate how they can best contribute? Or leave it entirely up to them whether they stay or return? Or should we generally require people to resettle, unless they can demonstrate a good reason for an exception?

[bovlomov]

But we should not make a tenuous and inaccurate link between the provisions of the Kindertransport and refugee status today.

I agree with that, and much of your post. I think, though, that a comparison of attitudes can be made. There are arguments to be made, for or against refugees being accommodated here in the UK, and several posters here have made good arguments against. What chimes from the 1930s is the glib dismissal, from some, of the plight of refugees, and the casual assumption that many are undeserving, dishonest, criminal, or violent; and the sneering comments about them wanting to come here solely on economic grounds (as if that's something to be ashamed of). This very closely matches the attitude to the Jews in the 1930s, typified by the Daily Mail.

[Ben@Forest]

However, when conflict has ended, and the opportunity to return exists for some refugees, there should clearly be programs which encourage them to return and help rebuild or establish new societies.

Countries recovering from recent conflict need their intellectuals and professionals to return, but all too often then have established lives and careers in new countries, and are not inclined to return.

And that doesn't even require wars or repression. About 15 years ago I remember reading an article/interview about Ghana's president or a presidential candidate. He was a medical doctor. He said that of the 46 people he had trained with as a doctor only 9 were still in the country, the others had gone to Europe or America. Hoping that doesn't turn the thread to the NHS (and I think he pointed out in the interview the UK was not an especial culprit in doing this).

[reohn2]

However, when conflict has ended, and the opportunity to return exists for some refugees, there should clearly be programs which encourage them to return and help rebuild or establish new societies.

Countries recovering from recent conflict need their intellectuals and professionals to return, but all too often then have established lives and careers in new countries, and are not inclined to return.

And that doesn't even require wars or repression. About 15 years ago I remember reading an article/interview about Ghana's president or a presidential candidate. He was a medical doctor. He said that of the 46 people he had trained with as a doctor only 9 were still in the country, the others had gone to Europe or America. Hoping that doesn't turn the thread to the NHS (and I think he pointed out in the interview the UK was not an especial culprit in doing this).

But it doesn't surprise me,if people see a better future in a country that requires their skill who can blame them?
It's up to the world as a whole to try to equalise the standard of life upwards for all,rather than poach other countries skills which is done on a regular basis by richer countries which keeps the poorer countries poor.
An example recently in the news is the NHS setting up recruitment centres in the Philipines rather than train UK citizens.

Sorry bring up the NHS but its the only example I can think of ATM,though I'm sure there are many other examples.

[Vorpal]

Sorry bring up the NHS but its the only example I can think of ATM,though I'm sure there are many other examples.

Engineering is another example. British universities are not producing enough engineers to meet the needs of British companies. However, it is a popular subject at some very good unversities in Africa, Aisa, and the Middle East. Syrian and Iranian refugees tend to be well educated, and there are plenty of engineers among them.

[Ben@Forest]

Engineering is another example. British universities are not producing enough engineers to meet the needs of British companies. However, it is a popular subject at some very good unversities in Africa, Aisa, and the Middle East. Syrian and Iranian refugees tend to be well educated, and there are plenty of engineers among them.

This example does not directly relate to refugees but certainly to the effects of globalisation. I know someone who is a marine engineer working on ships when they are at sea. When he started there would be longer on-shore breaks than now - so he'd be away for nine weeks or something and than have six weeks off. Since the communist bloc disappeared and then further globalisation companies can find people who will work with fewer weeks off - let's say nine weeks on/ three weeks off. It can be argued that we just have to get used to working harder and longer (and longer in age as well) but rather than other countries coming up to the standards westernised countries enjoy we are having to reduce benefits and working practices earned over time.

So I am sure there are companies out there who will sing the praises of their African, Asian, Middle Eastern or whatever engineers who will work longer hours with less complaint.

[al_yrpal]

Studying Higher Mathmatics, Physics, Theory of Machines, Strength of Materials, Metallurgy, Fluid Dynamics and Thermodynamics, alternatively Electrical and Electronic Engineering, is seen as too difficult these days when you can get a degree in drama or interior design. The salary and opportunities you can expect in the UK is poor too. Things havent changed and so far fewer people take this route to a career. Many qualified engineers get diverted to City jobs where their mathematical and anylitical skills are in demand. Dyson is having to open an Engineering Centre in Singapore to overcome the shortage of recruits here. Over there, like in Germany, France and the US he's going to have to pay decent salaries.

Al

[Vorpal]

Engineering is another example. British universities are not producing enough engineers to meet the needs of British companies. However, it is a popular subject at some very good unversities in Africa, Aisa, and the Middle East. Syrian and Iranian refugees tend to be well educated, and there are plenty of engineers among them.

This example does not directly relate to refugees but certainly to the effects of globalisation. I know someone who is a marine engineer working on ships when they are at sea. When he started there would be longer on-shore breaks than now - so he'd be away for nine weeks or something and than have six weeks off. Since the communist bloc disappeared and then further globalisation companies can find people who will work with fewer weeks off - let's say nine weeks on/ three weeks off. It can be argued that we just have to get used to working harder and longer (and longer in age as well) but rather than other countries coming up to the standards westernised countries enjoy we are having to reduce benefits and working practices earned over time.

So I am sure there are companies out there who will sing the praises of their African, Asian, Middle Eastern or whatever engineers who will work longer hours with less complaint.

This isn't really a matter of people working longer hours and things. Actually, although some firms take advantage of professional employees, in terms of working conditions, engineers do relatively well in the UK. British universities really don't turn out enough engineers to meet market demands.

Evidence:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... shore.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comm ... fixed.html
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... h-industry
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs ... he-UK.html
Engineering salaries are rising higher than inflation on the back of the shortage http://www.imeche.org/news/news-article ... hree-years

[mercalia]

seems like the DUB-ites have failed to force the govt to change its mind by trying to establish in law a requirement for councils to report atleast annually any spare child care capacity

an interesting article as even one of those in favour seem to suggest that a mere 350 odd spaces are available not the 3000 or so that Juliet Stevenson and the other luvies want to bring over. I would love to challenge them with personally taking on a migrant child at their own expence. Would be interesting to know what their response would be ( Madonna and Jolie to their credit have done this sort of thing? )

seems like the DUB-ites ignoring that -

"Each year around 3,000 children arrive in the UK and claim asylum, which is in addition to children placed in a local authority area through our resettlement schemes from the Middle East and North Africa region.

"Last year, the UK granted protection or another form of leave to more than 8,000 children."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39187290