Trump Wins!

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kwackers
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Re: Trump Wins!

Post by kwackers »

meic wrote:Which is why both sides go to great lengths to control the agenda, the language you can use in your discussions and who is qualified enough to have an opinion.
My team seems to be obsessed with winning the causes and votes of the elites instead of the proles who originally formed them, while the opposition are reaping in the votes by appealing to the masses who my team are too busy ridiculing and insulting.

We should thank our lucky stars nobody is having a referendum on cycling because I doubt your average pleb would vote in our favour particularly once the ridicule and blatant lies etc start flying around.
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mjr
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Re: Trump Wins!

Post by mjr »

kwackers wrote:We should thank our lucky stars nobody is having a referendum on cycling because I doubt your average pleb would vote in our favour particularly once the ridicule and blatant lies etc start flying around.

:eek: START flying around? www.CyclingFallacies.com/en
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Psamathe
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Re: Trump Wins!

Post by Psamathe »

kwackers wrote:
meic wrote:Which is why both sides go to great lengths to control the agenda, the language you can use in your discussions and who is qualified enough to have an opinion.
My team seems to be obsessed with winning the causes and votes of the elites instead of the proles who originally formed them, while the opposition are reaping in the votes by appealing to the masses who my team are too busy ridiculing and insulting.

We should thank our lucky stars nobody is having a referendum on cycling because I doubt your average pleb would vote in our favour particularly once the ridicule and blatant lies etc start flying around.

An excellent point illustrating the shortcomings of referendums. And illustrating why we employ people (MPs) at significant expense to look at complex issues and to make decisions on our behalf in the interests of the country.

Ian
mercalia
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Re: Trump Wins!

Post by mercalia »

now get this --

"The neoliberal era in the United States ended with a neofascist bang. The political triumph of Donald Trump shattered the establishments in the Democratic and Republican parties – both wedded to the rule of Big Money and to the reign of meretricious politicians.

The Bush and Clinton dynasties were destroyed by the media-saturated lure of the pseudo-populist billionaire with narcissist sensibilities and ugly, fascist proclivities. The monumental election of Trump was a desperate and xenophobic cry of human hearts for a way out from under the devastation of a disintegrating neoliberal order – a nostalgic return to an imaginary past of greatness."

eh? any one want to translate?

The Guardian is always fun to read?


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/17/american-neoliberalism-cornel-west-2016-election?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=200233&subid=7646217&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2
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meic
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Re: Trump Wins!

Post by meic »

The Bush and Clinton dynasties were destroyed by the media-saturated lure of the pseudo-populist billionaire


Funny phrase to use, the media were pretty much largely against Trump and printing stuff intended to harm him, so are they just admitting that this sustained saturation of the media with attacks on Trump actually bought about his election.

If so I am surprised at their admission of guilt (Guardian were certainly there and still are there giving him as much publicity as possible) but I dont see them changing tact at all.
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blackbike
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Re: Trump Wins!

Post by blackbike »

mercalia wrote:now get this --

"The neoliberal era in the United States ended with a neofascist bang. The political triumph of Donald Trump shattered the establishments in the Democratic and Republican parties – both wedded to the rule of Big Money and to the reign of meretricious politicians.

The Bush and Clinton dynasties were destroyed by the media-saturated lure of the pseudo-populist billionaire with narcissist sensibilities and ugly, fascist proclivities. The monumental election of Trump was a desperate and xenophobic cry of human hearts for a way out from under the devastation of a disintegrating neoliberal order – a nostalgic return to an imaginary past of greatness."

eh? any one want to translate?


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/17/american-neoliberalism-cornel-west-2016-election?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=200233&subid=7646217&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2


Yes.

Stupid, xenophobic, impressionable people have voted for someone they shouldn't have, and while the clever author is not happy, to a certain extent he does understand why people less intelligent and informed than he is have behaved in this disappointing manner.

In the Guardian that is the gist of every article about Trump and Brexit.
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syklist
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Re: Trump Wins!

Post by syklist »

blackbike wrote:Yes.

Stupid, xenophobic, impressionable people have voted for someone they shouldn't have, and while the clever author is not happy, to a certain extent he does understand why people less intelligent and informed than he is have behaved in this disappointing manner.

But I thought we were in the era of "Post truth" so why are you worried about that at all?
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SpannerGeek
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Re: Trump Wins!

Post by SpannerGeek »

syklist wrote:
blackbike wrote:Yes.

Stupid, xenophobic, impressionable people have voted for someone they shouldn't have, and while the clever author is not happy, to a certain extent he does understand why people less intelligent and informed than he is have behaved in this disappointing manner.

But I thought we were in the era of "Post truth" so why are you worried about that at all?


In a way we're in the era of 'post newspapers', clearly with all the negative impact and relentless attacks on Trump the American people voted with their boots on. The internet has largely superseded print and broadcast media for news and politics. Perhaps eventually they'll wake up to the fact.

People voted AGAINST the neoliberal status quo, happily reinforced by a colluding press elite, who now find themselves thoroughly kicked into touch, on two momentous occasions. It could have been 3 had the British establishment not campaigned so ferociously to stymie the Scottish referendum, 37 out of 38 national newspapers (and the BBC) patently siding with the status quo, against the will of the people. Who again, we're ruthlessly deceived by a mendacious government.
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syklist
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Re: Trump Wins!

Post by syklist »

SpannerGeek wrote:
syklist wrote:
blackbike wrote:Yes.

Stupid, xenophobic, impressionable people have voted for someone they shouldn't have, and while the clever author is not happy, to a certain extent he does understand why people less intelligent and informed than he is have behaved in this disappointing manner.

But I thought we were in the era of "Post truth" so why are you worried about that at all?


In a way we're in the era of 'post newspapers', clearly with all the negative impact and relentless attacks on Trump the American people voted with their boots on. The internet has largely superseded print and broadcast media for news and politics. Perhaps eventually they'll wake up to the fact.

And he actually got less than 50% of the votes. So your point is?

Still, somewhat better than the 37% who voted in favour of Brexit wouldn't you say?

Edit "s" added in bold for the mierenneukers on the board
Last edited by syklist on 18 Nov 2016, 1:09pm, edited 2 times in total.
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meic
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Re: Trump Wins!

Post by meic »

And he actually got less than 50% of the vote. So your point is?

Still, somewhat better than the 37% who voted in favour of Brexit wouldn't you say?


When spinning facts in order to mislead, you really should not overstep the mark in this way.
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syklist
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Re: Trump Wins!

Post by syklist »

meic wrote:
And he actually got less than 50% of the vote. So your point is?

Still, somewhat better than the 37% who voted in favour of Brexit wouldn't you say?


When spinning facts in order to mislead, you really should not overstep the mark in this way.

Hanlon's razor? Typo vs spin. You call me on one missing "s".

Things in the UK are worse than I could possibly have imagined.
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meic
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Re: Trump Wins!

Post by meic »

You call me on one missing "s".
Of course not!
I call you out on blatant misrepresentation on a totally irrelevant issue.

Comparing % of eligible voters in one case to percentage of turnout in another.
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syklist
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Re: Trump Wins!

Post by syklist »

meic wrote:
You call me on one missing "s".
Of course not!
I call you out on blatant misrepresentation on a totally irrelevant issue.

Comparing % of eligible voters in one case to percentage of turnout in another.

I get your point now. Thanks for persevering :lol:
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syklist
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Re: Trump Wins!

Post by syklist »

SpannerGeek wrote:
syklist wrote:
blackbike wrote:Yes.

Stupid, xenophobic, impressionable people have voted for someone they shouldn't have, and while the clever author is not happy, to a certain extent he does understand why people less intelligent and informed than he is have behaved in this disappointing manner.

But I thought we were in the era of "Post truth" so why are you worried about that at all?


In a way we're in the era of 'post newspapers', clearly with all the negative impact and relentless attacks on Trump the American people voted with their boots on. The internet has largely superseded print and broadcast media for news and politics. Perhaps eventually they'll wake up to the fact.

I will try again... :)

27% of eligible voters actually voted for Trump, which is even worse than the 37% who voted in favour of Brexit.

How can either of those results be described as "voting with their boots on" when a large proportion of the electorate boycotted the vote or voted for the other parties.
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meic
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Re: Trump Wins!

Post by meic »

27% of eligible voters actually voted for Trump, which is even worse than the 37% who voted in favour of Brexit.


Turnout in the former was the same as the election in 2012 which elected Obama second time around.
Turnout for the latter was 72%, a surge in turnout that hasnt been seen in ages (with the obvious exception of the Scottish referendum where even the losing side had 44.7% of the eligible vote).

The 27% is pretty much the norm without transferable votes in Western democracies, isnt it?
Sounds right for UK governments.
Last edited by meic on 18 Nov 2016, 1:48pm, edited 1 time in total.
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