Rememberence

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Spinners
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Re: Rememberence

Postby Spinners » 12 Nov 2016, 10:31am

meic wrote:I could start with the Daily mail, The Express, The Sun, Tony Blair, David Cameron, some senior ex-Generals, Barbara Windsor, EDL, the twitter-sphere trolls, Gerald Howarth MP and who ever gave the orders that everybody who steps in front of a BBC camera shall be wearing one.


So have any of the above actually come out in open support of compulsory poppy wearing and taking us to war? If so, war against whom?
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meic
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Re: Rememberence

Postby meic » 12 Nov 2016, 10:34am

iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Libya, Syria, Zimbabwe, Iran, Somalia and a lot of barking at the heels of Russia. I've probably missed somewhere out.
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Re: Rememberence

Postby bikepacker » 12 Nov 2016, 10:52am

tyreon wrote:When the politicians sons and daughters get conscripted in to fight on the front line,I might go. I want judges sons and daughters there,too. And the newspapers proprietors sons and daughters. I want the senior civil service sons and daughters. It's more than a bit sad that it's the working class folk who seemed to do a lot of the sacrificing :( .
Apologies for the same-old,same-old


The husband, son and grandson of the Queen have all seen combat action fighting with British Forces. How much farther up the ladder do you wish to go?
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Spinners
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Re: Rememberence

Postby Spinners » 12 Nov 2016, 11:27am

meic wrote:iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Libya, Syria, Zimbabwe, Iran, Somalia and a lot of barking at the heels of Russia. I've probably missed somewhere out.


Thanks for answering the second part of my question. I now feel the need to pay closer attention to the news...
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Re: Rememberence

Postby DaveP » 12 Nov 2016, 11:51am

kwackers wrote:I must admit I get annoyed with all the politicising of everything.

Whether I think we should get involved militarily in a situation or not these guys/gals put their lives on the line for us so I'm happy to help.
The rights and wrongs of why they're there - that's political and I cast my votes accordingly.

I agree totally.
There is nothing political about remembering and feeling respect for and gratitude towards those who came when they were called. Or indeed those who rose to the occasion in other ways (Rosie the riveter etc.) Personally I could even make a case for honouring conscientious objectors, many of whom demonstrated that they were neither shirkers or cowards.
Once you get past the "Boy's Own" ideas about war being a glorious adventure it is unlikely that anyone would forget that there is an appalling cost in human suffering, but a national Act of Remembrance is a good way of making sure. I find the two minute silence more impressive but have occasionally attended a wreath laying.
Poppies are something else though IMO. I'm aware of the fields of Flanders background, naturally, but as a child I was told that the poppies that you hand over money for were raising funds to provide care for the long term casualties of war. Call me naïve if you wish, but that is one of the things that I have never questioned, so that when I wear one my message is along the lines of "Another year gone and I'm still helping to pay that part of the costs of warfare that governments always manage to ignore" I don't begrudge the money, but I do sometimes feel that as long as we carry on doing this sort of thing, governments are not going to change their ways. So you could call this a political act if you wanted, but I call it facing the facts.
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Re: Rememberence

Postby merseymouth » 12 Nov 2016, 3:40pm

Hello there, I wear my poppy & other badges of rememberance for that reason - "To Remember"!
I have much to be thankful for, my own father was on the Russian Convoys & in the Battle of the Atlantic, he survived so I could be born in 1949.
His father was injured several times in WW1, the worst time at 3rd Ypres - Passchendael. He survived with life changing injuries, so my father was born in1924.
So my family continued, many did not have such luck? "All Gave Some, Some Gave All". We will remember them.

What I do find sickening was the sight of a Muppets Puppet being paraded wearing a poppy on the BBC!

View Charles M Schultz's "What have we learned, Charlie Brow?" then think about it all. MM

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Re: Rememberence

Postby pwa » 12 Nov 2016, 5:16pm

meic wrote:
it is a good demonstration of solidarity to wear a poppy.

A political statement that you are in support of our present overseas interventions!

That wasnt the purpose of the Poppy when it was introduced, it was meant to be a support of peace not war.


Not that kind of solidarity, Meic. Solidarity with the bereaved, the deceased and the injured.

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Re: Rememberence

Postby belgiangoth » 12 Nov 2016, 10:33pm

One of the issues with the poppy (besides the fact that it is mandatory) is that it stands for two things:
Remembering those who died at war (with a focus on members of the armed forces)
Solidarity with the armed forces.

The poppy is a commonwealth thing, you won't see it in the rest of Europe. Compare it with the bleuet in France, which is in support of the victims of war (and has no military connections).

I think it's completely fair for people not to wear the poppy and to have reservations about its significance and use these days.

(But then I am foreign).
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Re: Rememberence

Postby reohn2 » 13 Nov 2016, 1:51am

kwackers wrote:I must admit I get annoyed with all the politicising of everything.

Whether I think we should get involved militarily in a situation or not these guys/gals put their lives on the line for us so I'm happy to help.
The rights and wrongs of why they're there - that's political and I cast my votes accordingly.


My view exactly.

The one thing that seriously annoys me is that the country doesn't pay for looking after ex servicemen and women who need it and they have to rely on charity.
They fought for,died and were injured for their country.The least their country could do would be to look after them and look after them properly from a ring fenced tax.
All too often I hear about how badly the country treats it's injured veteran soldiers,it's a disgrace.
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Re: Rememberence

Postby belgiangoth » 13 Nov 2016, 7:39am

This country does not pay for nurses and teachers either, but we don't pass buckets about for that. Is it down to a higher chance of being shot? Is this danger not made clear on application? Could these costs not have been covered from the Trident budget?
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Not saying that you're wrong, just wondering
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Re: Rememberence

Postby reohn2 » 13 Nov 2016, 8:33am

belgiangoth wrote:This country does not pay for nurses and teachers either, but we don't pass buckets about for that. Is it down to a higher chance of being shot? Is this danger not made clear on application? Could these costs not have been covered from the Trident budget?
...
Not saying that you're wrong, just wondering


We seem to be in agreement,unless I've got your meaning wrong :?

I agree we shouldn't need to pass buckets around to pay for looking after veterans,it was the state that sent them to war,it should be the state that picks up the pieces.
If there were a law passed(fat chance)that politrickians had to fight or be medics on the front line of any war,there'd be no wars.
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Re: Rememberence

Postby Cunobelin » 13 Nov 2016, 8:57am

meic wrote:As the time of compulsory silence and poppies approaches I cant help but notice that the same people who are pushing the compulsory Poppies and Remembrance are the same ones who keep pushing for yet another war!
One of us is clearly missing the point.



You are correct, someone is missing the point

May I suggest that you attend a Remembrance Service today and you will be amazed

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Re: Rememberence

Postby Cunobelin » 13 Nov 2016, 9:02am

belgiangoth wrote:This country does not pay for nurses and teachers either, but we don't pass buckets about for that. Is it down to a higher chance of being shot? Is this danger not made clear on application? Could these costs not have been covered from the Trident budget?
...
Not saying that you're wrong, just wondering



It is called the "Armed Forces Covenant", and has existed in many forms

Basically - if you take the increased risk on the nation's behalf, then the nation will look after you

As for not passing the bucket for the NHS, what about all the TV ads, Newspaper, campaigns, pubs, clubs and even Hospitals who are doing exactly that?

Name me a School that has not performed some sort of fund-raising in the last year

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Re: Rememberence

Postby Cunobelin » 13 Nov 2016, 9:08am

Mick F wrote:We've run the local Poppy Appeal for the last ten years, and were helping out the previous people for nearly ten years before.
This year is our last. We've handed our notice in.

Nothing to do with the cause, but the fact that we're tired of it. It's hard work organising the boxes and the collecting tins and the poppies and "goodies". We have 40 collecting points locally, and on Monday I'll be going round to them all and gathering it all back in. Meanwhile, we've given out all the wreaths for the remembrance ceremony at the local monument.

I'm an ex-serviceman, and there are lots of us about locally - mainly ex-RN. The trouble is, we're all getting long in the tooth and there's none coming up behind. The services these days are much less than half the manpower than when I was in the RN '69 to '96, so in the not too distant future, we won't have many ex-servicemen to run the Appeal at all. :shock:

20years ago, I knew of quite a few serving in the RN and RM, and some Army and one or two RAF - all locally. These days, I know of no-one at all. If you take the train into Plymouth, you go past Devonport Dockyard and in the past, you could see many many ships alongside or anchored off. These days, you see one or two only, and the place looks dead.


I agree fully

I hit a milestone last month.....

I am now the last person from any of the armed forces still actually working in my speciality

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Re: Rememberence

Postby reohn2 » 13 Nov 2016, 10:47am

Cunobelin wrote:It is called the "Armed Forces Covenant", and has existed in many forms

Basically - if you take the increased risk on the nation's behalf, then the nation will look after you

But is that provision adequate seeing as we feel the need to pass the bucket round?

As for not passing the bucket for the NHS, what about all the TV ads, Newspaper, campaigns, pubs, clubs and even Hospitals who are doing exactly that?

Name me a School that has not performed some sort of fund-raising in the last year

I take your point and the same question applies,is state provision enough for those public services?
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