Rememberence

[661-Pete]

The poppy is a commonwealth thing, you won't see it in the rest of Europe. Compare it with the bleuet in France, which is in support of the victims of war (and has no military connections).

That's a good point. I thought I'd seen poppy-wearers in France, but on reflection, I think they may have been British veterans visiting the scenes of conflict.

None of my family were combatants in WW2, but there were many victims, including my grandmother (who was deported to Auschwitz). But of course there is a separate day (27 January) where victims of genocide are commemorated (not just due to Nazi persecution, but actions perpetrated elsewhere around the world, I should emphasise).

So I should sum up - I have all respect for those who wear the poppy, and are commemorating on this day. But you will understand that there are other matters I am thinking of at the same time.

[mercalia]

The Cenotaph event needs reforming. Dont want to offend any here, but seeing the "established church" in its archiac robes, mouth its meaningless garbage and all the establishment on show quite offensive, needs to be an event for the common man who suffered the consequences of their decisions, thats the true meaning and sadness of the event? cant see it surviving much longer otherwise, as this pomp belongs to a bygone age and means little to the young?

[jezer]

The Cenotaph event needs reforming. Dont want to offend any here, but seeing the "established church" in its archiac robes, mouth its meaningless garbage and all the establishment on show quite offensive, needs to be an event for the common man who suffered the consequences of their decisions, thats the true meaning and sadness of the event? cant see it surviving much longer otherwise, as this pomp belongs to a bygone age and means little to the young?

+1

[landsurfer]

Out at 7.
Clear blue skies.
27 miles of hills and valleys, Derne Valley.
Home, shower, dressed.
Probably the only planned day of a shirt and tie this year.
Crombie, medals, shiny shoes and a thicket of grandchildren.
Questions and answers, sharp kiddies.
Grandads tears, their mad cuddles.
Back for Nana's bacon, sausage and tinned tomato brunch.
Services wife, hardcore.
Our remembrance day.
Hope yours went well Mick F.

[Mick F]

Yes, it did thanks. Quite a good turn-out. Band playing and a march-past too.
Here's ours.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.51337 ... 312!8i6656
We order the wreaths for the wreath layers. I laid one for the RN.

Just had a well-earned cuppa.
I left home at 0900 in the car to go and collect the Poppy tins and the unsold poppies. I did sixteen of them, and I'm off again after lunch to get a few more. This evening, me and Mrs Mick F will do the rounds of the pubs ( we have twelve in the parish). There will be a few I won't be able to collect until the end of the week due to some outlets only opening at the weekends.

Calstock Parish is a big parish, I think the biggest in area in Cornwall. Goodness knows how many miles I do putting them out and collecting them in. I have thought of doing it all by bike, but it's the volume of the stuff that would restrict me.
This is just some of it.

I put out 38 boxes generally. Up until a few years ago, we covered Callington and Kelly Bray as well as here, and we had 140 boxes to do, plus a staff of volunteers to manage whilst they manned Tesco and the Co-op.

I'll be counting over the next couple of weeks and paying it in at the Post Office. Usually about two and half grand out of the 38 boxes.

[Vorpal]

IMO, the only shame in wearing a poppy is that a poppy appeal is needed at all. The soldiers who serve their countries (the American Legion does something similar) should be cared for afterwards.

I agree that the there should be no pressure to wear a poppy, or not wear one. And I also agree that the poppy appeal is being subverted to support for current wars, which I do not like at all.

Remembrance Day should be about peace and the fallen who earned that peace for all of us. In the US, it is Veteran's Day, so it is meant to honour all veterans, not just the fallen, but there's a reason that it falls on Armistice Day.

[goatwarden]

Having just read this thread from the start I am disappointed by the apparent lack of attention by most contributors to the original question. It appears that many are keen to condemn the (hastily assessed through scan reading without digestion?) possibility that the OP implied that remembrance of military victims is wrong but few have commented on the OP's real point that "poppy fascism" (by which I mean the public shaming of those who choose not to wear a poppy) may be a political pressure to support the political aims of current and future military activity by UK forces.

As the time of compulsory silence and poppies approaches I cant help but notice that the same people who are pushing the compulsory Poppies and Remembrance are the same ones who keep pushing for yet another war!
One of us is clearly missing the point.

I agree entirely with the OP and am very disappointed with the authoritarian demeanor of successive governments since 1997. They seem to have stolen the concept of Remembrance Sunday to shame people into tolerating their ill-conceived military adventures.

Remembrance Sunday was, and is, a solemn occasion of which people are rightfully proud. However choosing not to attend or not to wear a poppy is not necessarily a desecration of anyone's memory. I have not worn a poppy for many years as I do not feel I need to tell the world how much I resent the loss of life for just, or unjust, cause. My remembrance is internal and personal.

I respect the choice of others to demonstrate in their own way but attempts by some (the media organs quoted by the OP for examples) to shame people for not doing the same are simple bullying and are exactly what my remembrance seeks to hope will not happen in future.

[reohn2]

Mrs R2 had the Remembrance service on TV last night,as usual jingoistic tunes were played and an artillery gun was fired!
It's supposed to be a remembrance service of the dead and injured caused by those very jingoistic sabre rattlers and guns!
It's simply disgusting in the extreme from my POV!

I've every respect for those poor souls now dead and those suffering as a result of war,but I've no respect in the way it's being portrayed by those that cause it.

[Mick F]

Just back from the afternoon collection.
Twenty-four in total so far.

[Flinders]

I give money to the appeal when asked, but don't choose to wear a poppy. My grandfather fought in WW1 and lost most of his mates, including his best friend, in the trenches (he was lucky, he enlisted at the same time but for reasons I don't know, possibly he was a bit younger, ended up in a different regiment rather than with his mates in the Pals). Unsurprisingly, he didn't care for Haig, found the idea of calling fundraising the Haig Fund an insult, and would have nothing to do with anything military at all after the war (he was invalided out after serving at Passchendaele). That's why I don't wear a poppy - out of respect for my own grandfather and his friends. As a result, I especially dislike being put under pressure by emotional blackmail to wear a poppy because someone who knows nothing of my background is arrogant enough to think I ought to do what they choose. I give to the fund, I don't wear a poppy. That's my choice, and I think it ought to be respected. Other people can do what they feel to be right without any half-baked judgements being made on them by me either.

My mother wears a white poppy- for both respect to the fallen and in favour of peace.

[Incidentally, I also feel that any injured, traumatised and/or disabled person should get gold standard treatment on the NHS whether they have been service personnel or not.]

[belgiangoth]

IMO, the only shame in wearing a poppy is that a poppy appeal is needed at all. The soldiers who serve their countries (the American Legion does something similar) should be cared for afterwards.

Agreed.
So should the nurses, teachers, lollipop ladies (and gents), etc. Non-rhetorically, what makes the armed forces so different that they need a national day for it? Also, can't you retire with pension after 20 years' service? In which case who/what are we raising money for?

[meic]

Because after the first world war they were just thrown out to fend for themselves, possibly after the second world war too. There was no NHS back then either.

[thirdcrank]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch,

... poor housing for service families was affecting morale and recruitment of personnel.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37978589

[landsurfer]

IMO, the only shame in wearing a poppy is that a poppy appeal is needed at all. The soldiers who serve their countries (the American Legion does something similar) should be cared for afterwards.

Agreed.
So should the nurses, teachers, lollipop ladies (and gents), etc. Non-rhetorically, what makes the armed forces so different that they need a national day for it?

Possibly the fact that other professional soldiers , like ourselves, from other countries, and ideologies (lets call them terrorists ) try to kill us .... unlike nurses, teachers and lollipop persons (sic).
23 years of contributing 9% of my annual salary gives me a pension of £4870 / annum.
Because i work, pay tax and national insurance, i am taxed at 40% on my pension .....

[landsurfer]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch,

... poor housing for service families was affecting morale and recruitment of personnel.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37978589

Poor housing for service families ...

RAF St Eval, 3 bed room mid terrace, fully furnished. Rent tied to local council house rents. Nice first home .. 3 miles from the beach.
RAF Sain Tathan, 4 bedroom fully furnished, 5 miles from the beach. Top cycling area, Ogmore Vale Wheelers was my local 2nd cat club. Rent tied to local council house rents.
RAF Leuchars, 3 bedroom semi. 3 miles from the beach. Un-furnished. End terrace, small garden but proper man shed. Rent tied to local council house rents. RAFCC and Dundee Wheelers.
RAF Wattisham. 4 bedroom detached, un -furnished, ex RN officers house. Bloody lovely. 27 mile cycle to work, 3 times a week, twice by car.
Cut off by snow every winter, so WESSEX to work ... Rent tied to local council house rents.
Then for the last 10 years of my time in the RAF, our own house in Rotherham, kids in school so i commuted, 140 miles a day to Dereham, weekly to Sain Tathan. Again ..
And finally, daily to Conningsby.
Then the Government gave the housing over to private companies to manage.... not sure which Party ..... and it really went down hill for our friends still serving...
Somebody voted them in .......