Self driving cars (and cyclists).

[kwackers]

I found this interesting (ymmv) so thought I'd 'share'.

It's basically self driving footage shot from a Tesla with some diagnostic 'objects of interest' from the cameras. What I found interesting was watching it 'handle' a cyclist.

You can see the car pass the cyclist at about 36 seconds in, the car drives on for a bit then coming up to a junction obviously realises the cyclist is coming up behind and stops short allowing the cyclist through.
Of note a bit further in you see the car slow down when it comes across a couple of joggers, not sure what the reasoning is there but I thought it interesting anyway.

https://www.tesla.com/videos/autopilot-self-driving-hardware-neighborhood-long

[thirdcrank]

The car didn't appear to check over its shoulder before letting the driver out.

IMO, the real test would be something along the lines of an advanced test where the driver has to do a commentary while driving so the examiner or in this case the audience knows that this or that is intentional.

[SpannerGeek]

The car didn't appear to check over its shoulder before letting the driver out.

IMO, the real test would be something along the lines of an advanced test where the driver has to do a commentary while driving so the examiner or in this case the audience knows that this or that is intentional.

When self drive becomes the de facto method of getting about (seemingly soon, within 3 years in most major towns and cities) I can see ANY 'obstructions ', be it pedestrians or cyclists banned from said carriageway on health and safety concerns.

Relegated to paths and cycle routes, the use of such highways populated entirely by autonomous self driving machines will be 'car only'.

Revel in your time! The age of the thinking machines is just around the corner, and they have no time nor concern for human propelled transport!

[mercalia]

The car didn't appear to check over its shoulder before letting the driver out.

IMO, the real test would be something along the lines of an advanced test where the driver has to do a commentary while driving so the examiner or in this case the audience knows that this or that is intentional.

When self drive becomes the de facto method of getting about (seemingly soon, within 3 years in most major towns and cities) I can see ANY 'obstructions ', be it pedestrians or cyclists banned from said carriageway on health and safety concerns.

Relegated to paths and cycle routes, the use of such highways populated entirely by autonomous self driving machines will be 'car only'.

Revel in your time! The age of the thinking machines is just around the corner, and they have no time nor concern for human propelled transport!

you can bet they will be part of the IOT, the internet of things, with poor security, and kids and others will have fun hacking them and sending people to the nearest red light district or .....

[kwackers]

When self drive becomes the de facto method of getting about (seemingly soon, within 3 years in most major towns and cities) I can see ANY 'obstructions ', be it pedestrians or cyclists banned from said carriageway on health and safety concerns.

Let's apply some logic here.

A first generation self driving car, not only saw a cyclist, it knew the cyclist was behind it and backed off to let the cyclist past so there was no danger of conflict at the junction.
That level of 'thinking' is virtually unknown with the meat variety of drivers.

So if a first generation can be so accommodating and behave in a way that's so safe, why on earth would you assume that later generations will require exclusive use of the carriageway?
I think that's scaremongering at its most extreme.

Here's the deal. Thousands of cyclists are currently being ksi'd in this country each year by trained monkeys. Self driving cars are already better.
Who do you want to share the road with? The car in the video that automatically makes allowance for you without needing a morning coffee to wake it up or feeling annoyed and angry because it once saw a cyclist run a red light? Or perhaps they themselves were cut up moments earlier?

If we're not going to ban cyclists now for H&S reasons when 10's of thousands are being injured, we're hardly likely to suddenly decide to do it when the numbers start falling through the floor....

Now if I was a car driver then I'd worry about being removed from the road, if not directly by legislation then indirectly by rising insurance costs of manually driven cars.

[thirdcrank]

I think consideration of the development and use of mobile phones shows that it's not easy to predict the future. eg who anticipated the growth of texting? Health and safety isn't necessarily high on the agenda eg the use of mobiles when driving.

I can appreciate that the driverless technology is already well-developed and will rapidly improve, but how that technology is used will largely depend on .... users. That's users who prioritise their own speed and convenience over the safety and convenience of others.

[kwackers]

I think consideration of the development and use of mobile phones shows that it's not easy to predict the future. eg who anticipated the growth of texting? Health and safety isn't necessarily high on the agenda eg the use of mobiles when driving.

I can appreciate that the technology is already well-developed and will rapidly improve, but how that technology is used will largely depend on .... users. That's users who prioritise their own speed and convenience over the safety and convenience of others.

Users don't get a look in.

Governments will determine the rules regarding vehicle safety - exactly as they do now. The main difference is this will include just how good the "driver" is too.

The EU are setting up conditions that require the rules the vehicle uses when making decisions to be transparent. (Admittedly we may not be part of the EU but despite what brexiters claim we'll still be beholden to those rules).
Any rule that says the vehicle can ignore the safety of folk in order to make "good progress" isn't going to go down well. Any manufacturer whose vehicle is seen to be killing and injuring innocent people is going to see their sale fall off a cliff. They're just not going to risk being seen as 'child killers' in order to knock a few seconds off a journey.
There no longer will be an arms race based on power and performance - do you believe that car adverts will show cars breaking speed limits or being 0.01 seconds faster to respond to a green light? Nope, cars will be uniform. Manufacturers will have to find other ways to tempt buyers.

As I've said on other threads though, this is all moot. Anti-collision systems are here and now and getting better. A bit like ABS preventing your wheels spinning, such systems will prevent you killing and injuring other parties - regardless of whether you or the computer is driving.
With that in mind, may as well sit back and watch a DVD / read the paper / text your mate...

[thirdcrank]

... Governments will determine the rules regarding vehicle safety - exactly as they do now. ...

That's pretty much the point I was trying to make. (When I edited your post to quote just that bit, the right at the end initially survived and I briefly thought this bit was ironic. )

ie it read

Governments will determine the rules regarding vehicle safety - exactly as they do now.

if you see what I mean

[sjs]

The car didn't appear to check over its shoulder before letting the driver out.

IMO, the real test would be something along the lines of an advanced test where the driver has to do a commentary while driving so the examiner or in this case the audience knows that this or that is intentional.

When self drive becomes the de facto method of getting about (seemingly soon, within 3 years in most major towns and cities) I can see ANY 'obstructions ', be it pedestrians or cyclists banned from said carriageway on health and safety concerns.

Relegated to paths and cycle routes, the use of such highways populated entirely by autonomous self driving machines will be 'car only'.

Revel in your time! The age of the thinking machines is just around the corner, and they have no time nor concern for human propelled transport!

3 years, by "de facto" you mean the typical, or default, method? In most towns and cities? I don't think so.

[djnotts]

It seems to me that it will be at least 5-10 years before even say a quarter of the cars in UK will be "driverless". The average age of a car has already increased since recession and as inflation rises, wages stagnate and in-work benefits fall the ability to purchase new tech high price items is hardly likely to rise.

"... before the recession the average age of cars in the UK was falling, however, since the recession the average age has risen drastically (*) and will probably continue to rise."

* currently stands at 7.7 years AVERAGE.

My 14 y.o. Mondeo sure isn't going to be replaced with a >10 grand set of wheels!

[squeaker]

I found this interesting (ymmv) so thought I'd 'share'.

Thanks: bring it on!

[meic]

Of note a bit further in you see the car slow down when it comes across a couple of joggers, not sure what the reasoning is there but I thought it interesting anyway.

How long before that is rated as unacceptable "behaviour" by the car and the software parameters are tweaked to allow a bit more risk when passing pedestrians? Then there is more tweaking and more tweaking until we reach an acceptable compromise between speed and danger to third parties.
At which point it will probably have given up on leaving space for cyclists as well.

[[XAP]Bob]

It seems to me that it will be at least 5-10 years before even say a quarter of the cars in UK will be "driverless". The average age of a car has already increased since recession and as inflation rises, wages stagnate and in-work benefits fall the ability to purchase new tech high price items is hardly likely to rise.

"... before the recession the average age of cars in the UK was falling, however, since the recession the average age has risen drastically (*) and will probably continue to rise."

* currently stands at 7.7 years AVERAGE.

My 14 y.o. Mondeo sure isn't going to be replaced with a >10 grand set of wheels!

But it might be dropped in favour of an automated uber...

[thirdcrank]

... How long before that is rated as unacceptable "behaviour" by the car and the software parameters are tweaked to allow a bit more risk when passing pedestrians? Then there is more tweaking and more tweaking until we reach an acceptable compromise between speed and danger to third parties.
At which point it will probably have given up on leaving space for cyclists as well.

That pretty much sums it up for me but, without speculating on the political incorrectness of cars slowing right down behind female joggers, it's easy to imagine that they might have been waiting to cross, given a grateful wave and sauntered over the road. A novelty all round but for how long?

[kwackers]

How long before that is rated as unacceptable "behaviour" by the car and the software parameters are tweaked to allow a bit more risk when passing pedestrians? Then there is more tweaking and more tweaking until we reach an acceptable compromise between speed and danger to third parties.
At which point it will probably have given up on leaving space for cyclists as well.

There's an assumption that there's a speed increase available by ignoring peds and cyclists.
That doesn't seem very likely, even if for no other reason than you only need one accident with associated tailbacks to absorb all those seconds saved.

If the EU get their way the algorithms will be visible, can't imagine JP standing for a line of code that reads:
if (timeSaved > 0.1)
RunOverCyclistOrPedestrian(true);

Feel free to campaign against self driving cars. I wouldn't want anything to get in the way of the utopia that currently exists on the roads...