Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

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tyreon
Posts: 936
Joined: 4 Oct 2012, 4:39pm

Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby tyreon » 21 Nov 2016, 11:05am

A reasonable question,Skylist. Answer: I don't know who does it now! At the same time,I am happy to go join the committee working for half their salaries. After inspection and consideration and mathematics,I will profer my own recommendations.

OTOH it's all confusing stuff. Big Biz wants super low wages,then we all have to pay extra through our taxes cos no one can live on the low wages. More competition will lower the wages,so we the public have to subsidize the profits which are then off-shored so's top investors don't scarper abroad. I never went to Oxford but they seem ever confused by it all. I think Alan Greenspan said he'd made a mess of it all...and everyone relied on him as 'the brains'.

Over to you :wink:

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syklist
Posts: 1205
Joined: 19 May 2008, 6:43pm

Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby syklist » 21 Nov 2016, 11:13am

tyreon wrote:A reasonable question,Skylist. Answer: I don't know who does it now! At the same time,I am happy to go join the committee working for half their salaries. After inspection and consideration and mathematics,I will profer my own recommendations.

How about we agree that the minimum wage has something to do with the UK government, seeing as it was introduced with the National Minimum Wage Act 1998?
So long and thanks for all the fish...

Psamathe
Posts: 10090
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby Psamathe » 21 Nov 2016, 11:35am

syklist wrote:...
Access to the single market depends on free movement of labour in addition to goods, services and capital....

But the referendum only asked about us leaving the EU. There were no questions about stopping Freedom of Movement nor about leaving the EEA/Free Trade Area. So how come we are somehow magically destined to break with our main trading parrtner and stop Freedom of Movement when this was never asked and Parliament is getting no say on the matter?

Ian

tyreon
Posts: 936
Joined: 4 Oct 2012, 4:39pm

Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby tyreon » 21 Nov 2016, 4:15pm

All above posts very reasoned.

I guess we will still have Freedom of Movement,and will have...but it's the add-ons that make the difference,positive or negative. I still had Freedom of Movement throughout the world 50+ years ago ,but it came with having a passport or a paid-for visa! Note the sotto voce add on. The sotto voce add-on as is(and was until recently that-word-that-must-not-be-mentioned)Immigration! Numbers! Housing. Infrastructure. Cost(s)

PDQ Mobile
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Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby PDQ Mobile » 21 Nov 2016, 4:33pm

tyreon wrote:All above posts very reasoned.

I guess we will still have Freedom of Movement,and will have...but it's the add-ons that make the difference,positive or negative. I still had Freedom of Movement throughout the world 50+ years ago ,but it came with having a passport or a paid-for visa! Note the sotto voce add on. The sotto voce add-on as is(and was until recently that-word-that-must-not-be-mentioned)Immigration! Numbers! Housing. Infrastructure. Cost(s)


I don't think you had the freedom of movement 50 years ago that you have within Europe now; that is the right to reside and the right to work.
Passport free travel quite often too.
I also think it likely that you may lose those present rights if this Govt (the 3 rabid stooges) has its way. They are not interested in preserving those rights. They can afford to travel anyway.
From my point of view a tragedy, given Europe's diversity of landscapes cultures etc etc.
Travelling and working (mostly menial stuff) in Europe has enriched my life enormously.
My right to do so is very important to me.

tyreon
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Joined: 4 Oct 2012, 4:39pm

Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby tyreon » 21 Nov 2016, 5:20pm

Respect your views PDQ. You have to vote what you think is right and important to you.

I think this whole EU business hoo-ha came about by ill inconsideration. No one wishes ill on any other but we are born into a world where we are compelled to compete,for there to be winners there has to be losers: it's David Attneborough,C Darwin, Siddartha Gautama,Ayn Rand and K Marx a-jumbled. When you sit down a listen to a person's point of view you can often see where they're coming from. The trouble is we can't have it all.

blackbike
Posts: 2492
Joined: 11 Jul 2009, 3:21pm

Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby blackbike » 21 Nov 2016, 7:24pm

If the other EU countries regard the UIK as a bad apple it would make sense for it get rid of us as quickly as possible.

That's what most organisations do in such circumstances.

The EU is not the most united and harmonious organisation, and is becoming less so by the day. Its existence is not guaranteed and a long and nasty political battle with a leaving member is only going to highlight and worsen the EU's internal problems.

landsurfer
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Location: Rotherham

Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby landsurfer » 21 Nov 2016, 7:40pm

Where we have led, rightly or wrongly, Italy and Greece will follow.
"There may be trouble ahead" ....
:)
It's not about the bike .. It's about the journey .....
The Road Goes On Forever ........................

PDQ Mobile
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Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby PDQ Mobile » 21 Nov 2016, 7:44pm

tyreon wrote:I think this whole EU business hoo-ha came about by ill inconsideration. No one wishes ill on any other but we are born into a world where we are compelled to compete,for there to be winners there has to be losers: it's David Attneborough,C Darwin, Siddartha Gautama,Ayn Rand and K Marx a-jumbled. When you sit down a listen to a person's point of view you can often see where they're coming from. The trouble is we can't have it all.


You have lost me I'm afraid.
What has Darwin got to do with Britain's relationship with the EU?
I don't actually agree with the whole concept of survival of the fittest in regards of human interaction anyway. It exists and is promoted by the Right. But I would rather cooperation, a sharing of resources and a building of consensus.
I am however an unashamed idealist. Moderately happy one though. :D

SpannerGeek
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Joined: 12 Nov 2015, 2:16pm

Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby SpannerGeek » 21 Nov 2016, 7:45pm

landsurfer wrote:Where we have led, rightly or wrongly, Italy and Greece will follow.
"There may be trouble ahead" ....
:)


If leaving Europe is so onerous, expensive, time consuming and eventually damaging to the British economy (something the EU seem hell bent on achieving) I doubt any other county would dare to tread in the same footsteps. There might be trouble ahead, but it'll be home grown. Everything might seem plausible now, but when the first German or Japanese company starts to get the collywobbles about quitting the UK, the writing is on the wall. And that's to say nothing of the impending economic black hole if British banking loses financial passporting (which seems very likely). It'll be a shock top GDP the likes of which we've never experienced.
Last edited by SpannerGeek on 21 Nov 2016, 7:56pm, edited 1 time in total.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby PDQ Mobile » 21 Nov 2016, 7:47pm

landsurfer wrote:Where we have led, rightly or wrongly, Italy and Greece will follow
:)


I don't suppose you fancy a fiver on it?
Five years term enough?

landsurfer
Posts: 4834
Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm
Location: Rotherham

Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby landsurfer » 21 Nov 2016, 7:56pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:
landsurfer wrote:Where we have led, rightly or wrongly, Italy and Greece will follow
:)


I don't suppose you fancy a fiver on it?
Five years term enough?


5 years @ o% interest.
Taken in goodwill and as a debt of honour.
However, if I lose I will also wine and dine you +1.
If I win you will reciprocate.

DJW, my mark.
It's not about the bike .. It's about the journey .....
The Road Goes On Forever ........................

PDQ Mobile
Posts: 2799
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby PDQ Mobile » 21 Nov 2016, 8:03pm

blackbike wrote:
The EU is not the most united and harmonious organisation, and is becoming less so by the day. Its existence is not guaranteed and a long and nasty political battle with a leaving member is only going to highlight and worsen the EU's internal problems.


I don't agree. They have their differences but IMHO the member states will continue to have dialogue and work for the benefit of the whole organisation. It is so refreshing. So grown up.

Their ability to find consensus, compromise and sit and talk constructively around the table puts our lot of narrow minded, dogmatic, self-interested people to shame.
Our lot have proved themselves more hopeless and incompetent at just about everything they try to do.

This is the worst UK Govt. in all my long life without question. IMHO of course

PDQ Mobile
Posts: 2799
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby PDQ Mobile » 21 Nov 2016, 8:08pm

landsurfer wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:
landsurfer wrote:Where we have led, rightly or wrongly, Italy and Greece will follow
:)


I don't suppose you fancy a fiver on it?
Five years term enough?


5 years @ o% interest.
Taken in goodwill and as a debt of honour.
However, if I lose I will also wine and dine you +1.
If I win you will reciprocate.

DJW, my mark.


Your on! And ditto. But be warned I have expensive wining and dining tastes.

I have entered into my calendars reminder jobby so no rescinding on my part.
JKS my mark.

Psamathe
Posts: 10090
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby Psamathe » 21 Nov 2016, 8:18pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:
blackbike wrote:
The EU is not the most united and harmonious organisation, and is becoming less so by the day. Its existence is not guaranteed and a long and nasty political battle with a leaving member is only going to highlight and worsen the EU's internal problems.


I don't agree. They have their differences but IMHO the member states will continue to have dialogue and work for the benefit of the whole organisation. It is so refreshing. So grown up.

Their ability to find consensus, compromise and sit and talk constructively around the table puts our lot of narrow minded, dogmatic, self-interested people to shame.
Our lot have proved themselves more hopeless and incompetent at just about everything they try to do.

This is the worst UK Govt. in all my long life without question. IMHO of course

I would agree. And more importantly, the least democratic. We were all rightly scathing of Blairs sofa cabinet but at least Parliament got a say. But one of the main reasons we were told we should Leave the EU was to restore Sovereignty of our Parliament and the biggest decision facing the UK for decades and an appointed leader is doing everything in her power to bypass Parliament and implement her own personal wishes (even Kin Jong Un would envy that). And we are all paying for the legal fees for her fight to bypass our democratically elected Parliament we was meant to be getting it's Sovereignty back.

Ian