Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

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blackbike
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Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby blackbike » 21 Nov 2016, 8:35pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:
blackbike wrote:
The EU is not the most united and harmonious organisation, and is becoming less so by the day. Its existence is not guaranteed and a long and nasty political battle with a leaving member is only going to highlight and worsen the EU's internal problems.


I don't agree. They have their differences but IMHO the member states will continue to have dialogue and work for the benefit of the whole organisation. It is so refreshing. So grown up.

Their ability to find consensus, compromise and sit and talk constructively around the table puts our lot of narrow minded, dogmatic, self-interested people to shame.
Our lot have proved themselves more hopeless and incompetent at just about everything they try to do.

This is the worst UK Govt. in all my long life without question. IMHO of course


I think we are about to be treated to quite a spectacular, self-damaging display of EU incompetence over Brexit. I don't share you rosy view of EU harmony.

Nor does Mr Juncker when he says the EU is facing an 'existential crisis'.

In his annual state of the union address to the European parliament, Juncker will say commonality between EU member states has never been so low, with governments everywhere quicker to say what they don’t want from Brussels rather than work together.

He obviously doesn't think that member nations have a grown up ability to find consensus and compromise.

We are just the first off the sinking ship.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... ial-crisis

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby PDQ Mobile » 21 Nov 2016, 8:39pm

Well we shall see.

blackbike
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Joined: 11 Jul 2009, 3:21pm

Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby blackbike » 21 Nov 2016, 8:45pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:Well we shall see.

Yes.

It's win/win for me though.

I wouldn't mind a quick and easy Brexit which would be best for all parties, and I wouldn't mind a slow, poisonous one either as I think that could help hasten the EU's demise.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby PDQ Mobile » 21 Nov 2016, 8:54pm

Indeed.
I think it's lose lose for me.

My beloved UK is falling apart.

Its economic prosperity at risk not to mention its tolerance and joyful humorous culture!

But also that leaving to go to Europe won't be an option either. :(

blackbike
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Joined: 11 Jul 2009, 3:21pm

Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby blackbike » 21 Nov 2016, 9:07pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:Indeed.
I think it's lose lose for me.

My beloved UK is falling apart.

Its economic prosperity at risk not to mention its tolerance and joyful humorous culture!

But also that leaving to go to Europe won't be an option either. :(


Why not?

I can remember several members of my family working or studying in Europe before we joined the common market. My dad worked in Germany quite a lot in the 60s.

I can also remember seeing lots of EU tourists in the UK and Spain before either of those countries joined.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby PDQ Mobile » 21 Nov 2016, 9:18pm

Because we will lose freedom of movement and the automatic right of residence and the right to take up legal work. For many that will make it a non-starter.
It is(will be) a loss of citizenship.

landsurfer
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Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby landsurfer » 21 Nov 2016, 10:08pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:
landsurfer wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:
I don't suppose you fancy a fiver on it?
Five years term enough?


5 years @ o% interest.
Taken in goodwill and as a debt of honour.
However, if I lose I will also wine and dine you +1.
If I win you will reciprocate.

DJW, my mark.


Your on! And ditto. But be warned I have expensive wining and dining tastes.

I have entered into my calendars reminder jobby so no rescinding on my part.
JKS my mark.


And Julie and I will insist on fish and chips at a UK beach. :D
It's not about the bike .. It's about the journey .....
The Road Goes On Forever ........................

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby PDQ Mobile » 21 Nov 2016, 10:33pm

landsurfer wrote:
And Julie and I will insist on fish and chips at a UK beach. :D

Criccieth's nice and the chippy's second to none.

I love pizza. Wood fired oven of course.

blackbike
Posts: 2492
Joined: 11 Jul 2009, 3:21pm

Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby blackbike » 21 Nov 2016, 10:47pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:Because we will lose freedom of movement and the automatic right of residence and the right to take up legal work. For many that will make it a non-starter.
It is(will be) a loss of citizenship.


If you have a skill which is wanted by a country they'll probably let you in, and if you don't you might as well stay here as most EU countries are not eager to shower benefits on jobless Brits.

For most UK people freedom to move to many places in the EU like Poland, Spain, Bulgaria or anywhere else is largely meaningless as they are not wanted economically.

So I don't see the point of the UK keeping total freedom of movement as skilled workers will always have many opportunities to move abroad to work and unskilled ones won't, regardless of whether we have freedom of movement or not.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby PDQ Mobile » 21 Nov 2016, 10:53pm

You don't and I am not surprised.
But I do.
Many people have moved and worked throughout the EU and the experience has for many of them been a positive life enhancing one.
The skilled worker argument also is one that I also sort of anticipated.
Many skilled workers work in their specific fields. Perhaps all too often partly isolated from the culture and people of their new country.
So in many ways the UNSKILLED worker has the most to gain from his EU freedom.

Personally I want to keep this freedom.
You may well be wrong.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 22 Nov 2016, 1:24am

Hi,
I worked for an international firm and they had a factory in Czechoslovakia and El Salvador in the 90's.
The labour rate was 25p / hour in Czech, I never went there but I worked with a guy who did, I worked out that he would of been on the equivalent of 40k a week (2 Mil a year) if he was my next door neighbour in Czech, as he was on UK wages working there.

Saw a program the other day where a polish worker in UK could save more in a month than they could earn in six months back home.

Is there another reason for working abroad other than economical :?:
Somewhere there has to be losers.
If You Don't Try You Don't Do.....Don't Do You Don't Get...I'm Still Trying....Well Very..
You'll Find Me At The Top Of A Hill...............Somewhere...After Dark..

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syklist
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Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby syklist » 22 Nov 2016, 7:02am

tyreon wrote:Respect your views PDQ. You have to vote what you think is right and important to you.

I think this whole EU business hoo-ha came about by ill inconsideration.

I agree with you, as the Second World War was a much better model for Europe than the EU ever will be. :roll:
So long and thanks for all the fish...

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syklist
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Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby syklist » 22 Nov 2016, 7:07am

SpannerGeek wrote:
If leaving Europe is so onerous, expensive, time consuming and eventually damaging to the British economy (something the EU seem hell bent on achieving) ...

Sorry if I haven't been paying attention, but do you mean that was there a referendum in the rest of the EU resulting in a majority decision to kick the UK out of the Union?
So long and thanks for all the fish...

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syklist
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Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby syklist » 22 Nov 2016, 7:13am

blackbike wrote:For most UK people freedom to move to many places in the EU like Poland, Spain, Bulgaria or anywhere else is largely meaningless as they are not wanted economically.

Not workers necessarily workers, but I've read of pensioners from the UK (and other European countries) who have retired to places such Bulgaria, Romania and Hungary. A UK pension goes much further in those parts of Europe.
So long and thanks for all the fish...

SpannerGeek
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Re: Europe’s leaders to force Britain into hard Brexit

Postby SpannerGeek » 22 Nov 2016, 7:54am

I've a niece who has been living and working in Spain for 3 years now. She's quite worried she'll be sent packing. She's got a good job in Spain, and a PhD but has been turned down for a better position in the company because 'we are unsure of your residence status after Brexit'. She's had absolutely no guarantees or genuine information about her status or future employment. The company she works for are well known Spanish legal outfit.

The work they do is mainly litigation for local government, and they seem to know exactly what's going on (in the minds of the Spanish government at least), I'm pretty sure Chairman Theresa knows what's going on too, but us, the great unwashed we'll be the last to know.

A hard Brexit means Visa travel throughout Europe, probably extended checks, police station visits if you want to stay more than a fortnight, and almost no opportunity to be able to work outside of the UK without an onerous and likely selective work permit system. If my niece can't be sure of a position, with 3 years residency and a PhD , what chance for anyone?

Brexit is a disaster. And we STILL don't know what kind of a disaster it's going to be. I worked in Europe in my early 20's and thoroughly enjoyed it, also it gave me an insight into how Europeans REALLY think, about life and work. How many forum members can say the same thing, aboit Europe or America? It's easy to stand on a box and beat your drum, if you've never been past Southampton (and living abroad is NOT comparable to going for a two week holiday by the beach).

Think on.