pwa wrote: Psamathe wrote:
pwa wrote:It amazes me that the suggestion that EU leaders will be hard on the UK in order to deter dissent in their own countries does not produce more condemnation on this Forum. Don't we believe that the citizens of France, Hungary or wherever should have a free choice, without having their arms twisted? I believe that political leaders should be treating their citizens with respect, and trying to put their choices into action in a constructive way. If the EU governments believe in the EU they should make a positive case to their electorates, and not try to scare them by making life hard for those who have opted out.
If that really is how EU politics is going I am more glad than ever that we decided to leave. It stinks.
They are not "punishing the UK". They are acting to defuse the threats to the EU posed by their own versions of UKIP. If the UK gets a fabulous deal (e.g. Free Trade but no payment, no Freedom of Movement, no regulations, etc.) then obviously all the other member states would want the same deal (all the perks and none of the obligations).
So all they are talking about is "if you leave you leave and you can't have the benefits without the obligations". Basically they regard the four freedoms as fundamental (and that is not a recent thing, not in response to UK leaving). And they are just pointing out that Free Trade comes with the other 3 Freedoms (and that Boris, Gove, IDS, et al are in no position to pick and chose the benefits they want whilst having none of the obligations).
So no punishment, just upholding their established principles.
Of course the anti-EU people talk about "punishment" because that stirs up even more anti-EU sentiment and helps their anti-WU campaign (and that seems to work from reading comments here).
Either EU leaders are dealing with the UK in a way that is meant to quell dissent in their own countries, or they are not. Which is it? Should their own electorates be happy about being guided in that way?
The UK needs to come away with some restrictions on EU/UK labour movement. So the UK must make concessions. That's how grown up negotiations work. Making a contribution to EU development funds seems like an obvious starting point. It could be argued that developing the less developed economies of the EU is in our interest anyway.
It's not a question of "quelling dissent
" but of benefits vs obligations. So if I decide to leave my sailing club and am then allowed to keep using all the facilities just as before then other members might start wondering why they are paying £200 a year and getting the same deal as I'm getting paying nothing - so they might then start considering stopping paying their membership fee. Using same analogy, if it's a fundamental principle of the sailing club that you take your turn doing rescue boat duty and bar duty and I leave but get this fantastic deal where I can keep sailing/racing/using changing rooms/everything without paying a subscription and I also announce that I am not prepared to participate in the fundamental principle of helping with club duties (as well as not being a member and not paying my membership fees) and I'm allowed to, other members might start wanting the same deal i.e. all the benefits but none of the obligations. (And the sailing club analogy is quite a good one as helping with club duties is often a "fundamental principle of membership" as one club I joined I had to be interviewed to confirm I understood about the "club duty" aspect and another I had to sign a form confirming I understood and would help with the club duties).
If the UK gets benefits without the obligations other EU member state UKIP equivalent parties would use this to start "Uk's can do it so we want the same deal" which would allow them to stir-up disquiet.
So again, it has nothing to do with "punishment". The term "punishment" is being used by the anti-EU politicians to stir-up anti-EU sentiment in the UK ("because nobody likes being punished"). They are spinning an untrue sentiment to further their own aims and as I commented before you can see even from this forum people are believing it and reacting as they want you to.