Proof of ID may be needed for NHS care, says health chief

[landsurfer]

Passport ?? surly it should be a national insurance number ??

Possibly not .... Fly over from Ghana, 6 months pregnant, apply for national insurance number, number issued, attend maternity .... give birth to your beautiful child in a safe, well financed environment ....... and fly away, ... free of charge.

One maternity unit based at a hospital near Heathrow calls itself the "Ghana Express' as a result of the amount of Ghanan mothers it gives superb FREE maternity care to.
Allegedly ....

[blackbike]

Passport ?? surly it should be a national insurance number ??

Possibly not .... Fly over from Ghana, 6 months pregnant, apply for national insurance number, number issued, attend maternity .... give birth to your beautiful child in a safe, well financed environment ....... and fly away, ... free of charge.

One maternity unit based at a hospital near Heathrow calls itself the "Ghana Express' as a result of the amount of Ghanan mothers it gives superb FREE maternity care to.
Allegedly ....

A relative of mine works in a hospital in Surrey and says health tourists are common. And they are not poor either, but often affluent people who live in poor countries with health systems which are not too good. Poor people in poor countries can't afford to come here on a plane for medical treatment.

[Psamathe]

I hear they will insist on a passport AND a utility bill....

They already do (for 2ndry healthcare). When I moved back to UK from France I needed a minor operation. I knew I was not covered by NHS for 1st 6 months after returning so waited, then referred to consultant by my GP but before they'd let me see the consultant I had to go in (early before the consultant appointment) bringing in my evidence of residence e.g. passport, utility bills, council tax bill, etc.

and for most of the time I lived in France, French government were charging the UK for any healthcare I received. Covered by E106 which means France charges UK for healthcare given. Similarly, retired UK citizen living in France has their healthcare charged back to the UK.

Other countries do it so why not the UK ?

Ian

I understood the French get a fixed contribution for UK citizens living in France. Not all the costs are covered by the agreement.

I can only talk about the time when I was there (back in the E106 days). I had to have "more than one" interview with CPAM to get into the system and get replacement E016's, etc. but it's a different form these days (and I was classed as an "inactif" not retired).

Ian

[axel_knutt]

There must be plenty on here who went to their GP to have their passport application countersigned under the old rules, as proof of ID. They charged a tidy sum for an autograph. The same people could be taking the same document to the same doctor as proof of ID.

When I had to re-apply for my driving licence the doctor couldn't sign because he had been at the practice less than two years, so I got a librarian to do it as I was a regular there. If I needed ID now neither would be an option, our doctors are all locums, and the library staff come and go on a similar basis too.

[thirdcrank]

... When I had to re-apply for my driving licence the doctor couldn't sign because he had been at the practice less than two years, so I got a librarian to do it as I was a regular there. If I needed ID now neither would be an option, our doctors are all locums, and the library staff come and go on a similar basis too.

FWIW, I mentioned the old rules because with the introduction of newer (current?) rules the qualification to countersign passport applications was restricted to passport holders only. This meant that I, as a then police officer was no longer acceptable, even though I had always waived any charge for my autograph.

Since most of the baddies seem to have plenty of ID documentation to come and go as they please, I'm not sure that imposing these burdens on the goodies achieves much, except by impressing them that something is being done.

[pete75]

If the government is sure enough of my identity and residence here to tax me then they should be equally sure of the same when I require use of the services my tax pays for. It shouldn't be up to me to prove it.

What about someone who doesn't have a passport because they don't travel abroad, no driving licence because they don't drive and no utility bills because they live with their parents or all bills are in their partner's name?

[SpannerGeek]

If the government is sure enough of my identity and residence here to tax me then they should be equally sure of the same when I require use of the services my tax pays for. It shouldn't be up to me to prove it.

What about someone who doesn't have a passport because they don't travel abroad, no driving licence because they don't drive and no utility bills because they live with their parents or all bills are in their partner's name?

Unfortunately, in that case you'd find it nigh on impossible to open a bank account in the UK, or apply for any benefits. Crazy, but true.

[blackbike]

If the government is sure enough of my identity and residence here to tax me then they should be equally sure of the same when I require use of the services my tax pays for. It shouldn't be up to me to prove it.

What about someone who doesn't have a passport because they don't travel abroad, no driving licence because they don't drive and no utility bills because they live with their parents or all bills are in their partner's name?

I'm usually quite pleased when my right to avail myself of a service is checked.

It'd be very annoying if I couldn't take my paid for seat at my local football stadium because the club just let everyone in on a first come first served basis, or I had to wait hours for my paid for my rescue service when my car broke down because the breakdown trucks just went out to anyone who called in.

And I wouldn't like it if my tennis club let everyone in the area play for free meaning I found it harder to get on the courts I pay to use.

We have checks for eligibility for all sorts of relatively trivial things, so why not for the very important matter of access to our health care system?

[Vorpal]

The problem isn't a lack of proof or identification, it's that the government does not recover the costs, even when insurance details and countries of origin are known.

https://fullfact.org/health/health-tour ... -who-pays/

[meic]

Looking at that, it seems that people who have been living here and paying NI for decades may soon become Health Tourists!

[blackbike]

The problem isn't a lack of proof or identification, it's that the government does not recover the costs, even when insurance details and countries of origin are known.

https://fullfact.org/health/health-tour ... -who-pays/

If we refuse treatment to people who haven't got the ID required than recovering costs is not necessary.

[meic]

But a much bigger bill will be due when they subsequently attend A&E with a much more advanced condition.

[Vorpal]

The problem isn't a lack of proof or identification, it's that the government does not recover the costs, even when insurance details and countries of origin are known.

https://fullfact.org/health/health-tour ... -who-pays/

If we refuse treatment to people who haven't got the ID required than recovering costs is not necessary.

That goes against the principle on which the NHS was founded. Who gets to decide who is eligible? How far does that go? Are they allowed to let someone die on the steps because they came form Ghana?

[blackbike]

The problem isn't a lack of proof or identification, it's that the government does not recover the costs, even when insurance details and countries of origin are known.

https://fullfact.org/health/health-tour ... -who-pays/

If we refuse treatment to people who haven't got the ID required than recovering costs is not necessary.

That goes against the principle on which the NHS was founded.

Do show us the NHS principle enshrined by Bevan and the post-war Labour government which said we'd give free medical treatment to all the world's people if they could afford a flight to London and a taxi to the nearest hospital.

And even if it exists that doesn't mean we have to stick to it for all time.

Our elected government is as free make rules for the NHS as the one in 1948 was.

Times change, laws change.

[Mick F]

If the government is sure enough of my identity and residence here to tax me then they should be equally sure of the same when I require use of the services my tax pays for. It shouldn't be up to me to prove it.

What about someone who doesn't have a passport because they don't travel abroad, no driving licence because they don't drive and no utility bills because they live with their parents or all bills are in their partner's name?

Exactly ......... on both points.

I can open a bank account without a utility bill.
I have done only recently, and NOT with my usual bank.

They wanted my address, DOB, and my credit card details. That was all.