Why was Thatcher given a state funeral ??

[pete75]

Funny how prime ministers get voted in but some time after their leadership has ended their popularity conveniently gets forgotten and they move into the reviled or hatred category. I believe it happens a lot. Thatcher has been very popular but now some people on here are painting a wholly negative picture of them. If they were only as bad as they make out then how did they get elected?

Same goes for Blair then I suppose. Both were elected three times

[syklist]

Your view but there's probably as many with the opposite views and not always the rich who your lot accuse of keeping us in our place. Thatcher and other leaders do good and bad in office according to the observer's political leanings. Blair didn't do anything wrong, Callaghan was a saint and so on.

Where have I ever defended Blair? AKA the best Conservative Prime Minister the Labour Party has ever produced. Besides, we're discussing Thatcher here, not Blair.

I certainly hope that Blair does not get a state funeral either as, like Thatcher he doesn't deserve one. I don't see why anyone especially those on benefits or the low paid working citizens of the UK need to subsides such people's funerals.

[syklist]

Funny how prime ministers get voted in but some time after their leadership has ended their popularity conveniently gets forgotten and they move into the reviled or hatred category. I believe it happens a lot. Thatcher has been very popular but now some people on here are painting a wholly negative picture of them. If they were only as bad as they make out then how did they get elected?

It is called hindsight which most Brits are good at. It's a shame that we're not so good at thinking through the consequences before we vote.

More importantly how did the Thatcherites end up with a massive majority in the House of Commons with a minority of the popular vote?

[Tangled Metal]

Your view but there's probably as many with the opposite views and not always the rich who your lot accuse of keeping us in our place. Thatcher and other leaders do good and bad in office according to the observer's political leanings. Blair didn't do anything wrong, Callaghan was a saint and so on.

Where have I ever defended Blair? AKA the best Conservative Prime Minister the Labour Party has ever produced. Besides, we're discussing Thatcher here, not Blair.

I certainly hope that Blair does not get a state funeral either as, like Thatcher he doesn't deserve one. I don't see why anyone especially those on benefits or the low paid working citizens of the UK need to subsides such people's funerals.

Well if he does I hope it's soon! He's making sounds like he's thinking of getting back into politics.

Seriously though, my point was that you and others blame Thatcher for what seems to be all our nation's ills. I personally blame Blair and Brown for a lot of them. It's fair comment to bring in other former PMs not least because so much of Thatcher's legacy has been in effect solely because of subsequent governments. An idea started doesn't have to be followed by the later governments.

So IMHO if you don't like criticism of Thatcher to move on to.discussions over politics and actions of leaders following on then perhaps such topics shouldn't be started. It's the way political threads go, sides arguing based on their politics. Left, right, centre...they're all failing one demographic grouping or other. Perhaps we.need true Marxism to happen. I personally like the idea but accept human nature leaves it as pure fantasy.

[syklist]

Seriously though, my point was that you and others blame Thatcher for what seems to be all our nation's ills.

The point is that, although the divisions existed in UK society before the 1979 General Election it was Thatcher that cracked them open and, using an elected dictatorship forced through changes that others could never undo.

So IMHO if you don't like criticism of Thatcher to move on to.discussions over politics and actions of leaders following on then perhaps such topics shouldn't be started.

Sure, other people since have done things that really are not alright but why not start a new thread to discuss those people and groups?

[Tangled Metal]

It's what happens on forums, threads move on to include discussions of similar uses of electoral strength.

You have a large enough majority you can force through or change any laws if you have the will to do it and the leadership to drag your side through the lobbies with you.

If you want to have a thread with the only function to provide a place to heap abuse and scorn over a political leader a lot of people actually respect and admire then perhaps look for a political forum set up for socialist groupings. Unless I'm mistaken CUK forums are a broader church than that. That's just a suggestion, you could just accept that others will expand the discussion as often happens in a fluid thread like most political ones become.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
I can hear the sharpened nails on the keboard hovering over the button "MODERATE"

[Vorpal]

Hi,
I can hear the sharpened nails on the keboard hovering over the button "MODERATE"

No sharpened nails. My fingernails are all stubby.

But I did remove all of the posts of a personal nature.

[syklist]

If you want to have a thread with the only function to provide a place to heap abuse and scorn over a political leader a lot of people actually respect and admire then perhaps look for a political forum set up for socialist groupings. Unless I'm mistaken CUK forums are a broader church than that. That's just a suggestion, you could just accept that others will expand the discussion as often happens in a fluid thread like most political ones become.

So despite that this thread shows just how broad a church the CUK forums are you want to banish those who oppose your views to some "socialist groupings". So the CUK forums can become a Pro-Thatcher Pro-Brexit Pro-meat eating place for the masses (downtrodden for decades by the Guardian reading vegetarian elite) to congregate?

[Tangled Metal]

So despite that this thread shows just how broad a church the CUK forums are you want to banish those who oppose your views to some "socialist groupings". So the CUK forums can become a Pro-Thatcher Pro-Brexit Pro-meat eating place for the masses (downtrodden for decades by the Guardian reading vegetarian elite) to congregate?

Not at all the choice is all yours. I gave you two suggestions to solve your dislike of the thread moving on (inferred on my part so if wrong I apologise). To clarify, I've put it in bold.

If you want to have a thread with the only function to provide a place to heap abuse and scorn over a political leader a lot of people actually respect and admire then perhaps look for a political forum set up for socialist groupings. Unless I'm mistaken CUK forums are a broader church than that. That's just a suggestion, you could just accept that others will expand the discussion as often happens in a fluid thread like most political ones become.

My comment was in response to what could have been taken as an instruction for me to move my comments to another thread. In bold below.

Sure, other people since have done things that really are not alright but why not start a new thread to discuss those people and groups?

I'm sure you didn't mean to banish me from a thread for posting comments I see as related but do widen the thread somewhat.

Whatever I still hold that Thatcher is no better or worse than later leaders or earlier leaders. They all do harm in different ways.

[landsurfer]

"Whatever I still hold that Thatcher is no better or worse than later leaders or earlier leaders. They all do harm in different ways."

Totally agree with you Tangled Metal.
I have posted on the pointless and useless "Thatcher Hatred" we see on this forum.
Some people need to expand in the vertical plane.

[reohn2]

.....Some people need to expand in the vertical plane.

Most have and see that Thatcher's philosophy and economic ideas have done nothing but split the country further than it already was and make the divisions wider.
Blair and New Labour did nothing to heal that division only tinker around the edges.
As a result as I pointed out up thread we are where we are,a service industry with a diminished industrial base a transport and road system on it's knees,a pathetic non integrated public transport system.The NHS on it's knees and overwhelmed,unable to look after the old and infirm,where a the whipping boys and girls are the infirm,disabled and poor.
And all the time the rich get richer and successive governments lower their taxes.
The wealth of the country is in the hands of the few instead of in the country's fabric.
THAT is Thatcher's legacy,unbridled capitalism.
Are you happy with the state of the nation?

[bovlomov]

Whatever I still hold that Thatcher is no better or worse than later leaders or earlier leaders. They all do harm in different ways.

Perhaps Thatcher Hatred and Thatcher Worship are two sides of the same coin. As long as there are people praising her to the skies for her Falklands policy, her privatisation, and her curbing of union power, there'll be others damning her for the same - and much else besides.

She was responsible for that divide, because she consciously cultivated division - us and them - as a political strategy. If you do that, you can hardly be surprised if some want to dance on your grave.

...Where there is harmony let me sow discord....

[bovlomov]

I see reohn2 has already posted on Thatcher's talent for division.

[syklist]

She was responsible for that divide, because she consciously cultivated division - us and them - as a political strategy. If you do that, you can hardly be surprised if some want to dance on your grave.

+1
How do you think that so many members of a nation once seen as as tolerant as the UK can now blame "foreigners", (the same foreigners who help keep the economy going), for all of the UK's current woes.

"Them and us", Thatchers mantra.