Ban Politics from the forum

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.

Politics Too Contentious, Time to Stop!

Poll ended at 9 Dec 2016, 8:33am

No more political threads
9
50%
Politics behind a closed door, opt in only, largely unmoderated
9
50%
 
Total votes: 18

SpannerGeek
Posts: 722
Joined: 12 Nov 2015, 2:16pm

Ban Politics from the forum

Postby SpannerGeek » 8 Dec 2016, 8:33am

It seems no one is willing to address the elephant in the room here, and the discussion elsewhere is simply rambling and diffuse, as is the poll.

I've been a moderator myself on a Science forum, with over a 1000 regular contributors and an international membership going on 120k people and we never had problems like those existing here.

The problem is simple. The mods are knee jerk, hair trigger responsive and so keen to keep the forum 'pure' that even the slightest offence can be easily manipulated by cynical users of the ' Report' button. Threads disappear, without due warning or explanation, large sections of posts are redacted or removed, essentially any grown up discussion is moderated to death. In my time as a mod we never once removed an entire thread! Also there are one or two users who only too happy to abuse the Reporting system at the slightest offence taken. They should be removed. Both the mods and regular contributors are at fault here.

This can't go on. It's farcical. Either ban politics altogether or put it beyond reach of the average user on an opt in, members only section with minimal moderation and supervision.

This solves the majority of current frictions:

1. It frees the mods up to do more relevant, useful work

2. Extreme views can be challenged and not 'moderated' away by those who wish to abuse the Report system.

3. Free speech returns to the forum and those who no longer wish to see 'Blacking Up' stories don't have to.

4. Robust discussion can carry on behind closed doors, the more trivial trivia of everyday life can carry on regardless in the Tea Shop.

I've set this up as a binary question, because it really is quite straightforward, do we want vigorous political debate or not?
Last edited by SpannerGeek on 10 Dec 2016, 12:54pm, edited 2 times in total.

AlaninWales
Posts: 1540
Joined: 26 Oct 2012, 1:47pm

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby AlaninWales » 8 Dec 2016, 8:38am

It does seem that some people are made nervous and annoyed by exposure to opinions which they disagree with, which makes them want to shut down debate. If ever we are to see fascism in this country, it will come from and be supported by, these people (in my opinion).

User avatar
meic
Posts: 19355
Joined: 1 Feb 2007, 9:37pm
Location: Caerfyrddin (Carmarthen)

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby meic » 8 Dec 2016, 8:46am

This can't go on. It's farcical.
I think that it can go on, it is only a tea shop.
We are free to have a natter about politics but it isnt actually a platform intended for the facilitating general political debate.
If the post if of vital importance and can not risk arbitrary moderation then the CUK forum probably isnt the place to make it.

Just my opinion and I will happily support the moderators in whatever solution they come up with as basically they are the ones who end up having to do the work that others are creating and trying to direct.

In general, I agree with many others that this forum isnt an echo chamber which is good for society as a whole but it isnt up to people with green names to have to provide and police this public service.
Yma o Hyd

irc
Posts: 4534
Joined: 3 Dec 2008, 2:22pm
Location: glasgow

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby irc » 8 Dec 2016, 8:46am

THe poll does not have the third option - stick with the status quo. Not only do people need to see opinions other than their own if they wish to remain isolated from other opinions all they need to do is not read those threads.

Unless there are ambush threads with a cycling topic but political content I don't see the issue.

Ben@Forest
Posts: 1914
Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 5:58pm

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby Ben@Forest » 8 Dec 2016, 8:56am

I agree with irc. Leave it as it is. The debate is largely informed and moderation is minimal. So I will not be voting on this poll.

SpannerGeek
Posts: 722
Joined: 12 Nov 2015, 2:16pm

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby SpannerGeek » 8 Dec 2016, 9:06am

Ben@Forest wrote:I agree with irc. Leave it as it is. The debate is largely informed and moderation is minimal. So I will not be voting on this poll.


I couldn't disagree more. This forum is moderated to an extent I've never experienced elsewhere. And there are those who are willing to abuse that moderation in order to suppress genuine argument and dissent.

The suppression of dissent is a new feature of British life, and an ugly one which is driving us headlong to a far right situation apparent in many other European countries. By petulantly refusing to contribute you become part of the problem.

User avatar
meic
Posts: 19355
Joined: 1 Feb 2007, 9:37pm
Location: Caerfyrddin (Carmarthen)

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby meic » 8 Dec 2016, 9:12am

Failing to chose between two bad options when a good one remains unoffered does not contribute to the problem.
Accepting the validity of such a false range of choices would be contributing to the problem.
Yma o Hyd

SpannerGeek
Posts: 722
Joined: 12 Nov 2015, 2:16pm

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby SpannerGeek » 8 Dec 2016, 9:17am

meic wrote:Failing to chose between two bad options when a good one remains unoffered does not contribute to the problem.
Accepting the validity of such a false range of choices would be contributing to the problem.


Obfuscating the reality of a near useless, over moderated 'plain vanilla' forum where any dissent or grown up argument is filtered away with a smart retort is not going to solve the problem.

The status quo is ludicrous. Perhaps you can conscisely explain what is good about it?

Heads in sand...

User avatar
meic
Posts: 19355
Joined: 1 Feb 2007, 9:37pm
Location: Caerfyrddin (Carmarthen)

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby meic » 8 Dec 2016, 9:22am

Perhaps you can conscisely explain what is good about it?
We like it, it works.
Yma o Hyd

SpannerGeek
Posts: 722
Joined: 12 Nov 2015, 2:16pm

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby SpannerGeek » 8 Dec 2016, 9:26am

meic wrote:
Perhaps you can conscisely explain what is good about it?
We like it, it works.


Very clever. Perhaps you could exercise your brain to address the points raised in the OP.

roubaixtuesday
Posts: 1961
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby roubaixtuesday » 8 Dec 2016, 9:30am

I couldn't disagree more. This forum is moderated to an extent I've never experienced elsewhere.


You seem to lead a very sheltered life.

The suppression of dissent is a new feature of British life, and an ugly one which is driving us headlong to a far right situation apparent in many other European countries. By petulantly refusing to contribute you become part of the problem.


Rubbish. Moderating comments is no more "suppressing dissent" than choosing "letters to the editor" is.

User avatar
meic
Posts: 19355
Joined: 1 Feb 2007, 9:37pm
Location: Caerfyrddin (Carmarthen)

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby meic » 8 Dec 2016, 9:36am

Perhaps you could exercise your brain to address the points raised in the OP.
They are your opinion, you are entitled to hold and raise your opinions, best of luck to you.
I dont accept your initial premise and restricted range of solutions.
I agree with Ben, that it would be a mistake to enter in to your poll and I havent ticked a box either.

It would be like asking me to chose between beef or pork when I am a vegetarian.
Yma o Hyd

SpannerGeek
Posts: 722
Joined: 12 Nov 2015, 2:16pm

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby SpannerGeek » 8 Dec 2016, 9:42am

meic wrote:
Perhaps you could exercise your brain to address the points raised in the OP.
They are your opinion, you are entitled to hold and raise your opinions, best of luck to you.
I dont accept your initial premise and restricted range of solutions.
I agree with Ben, that it would be a mistake to enter in to your poll and I havent ticked a box either.

It would be like asking me to chose between beef or pork when I am a vegetarian.


If you can't be bothered to engage with the OP why bother commenting? Just point scoring? This kind of attitude has put many off the forum before. 'It's my ball and you can't play ’ philosophy.

700c
Posts: 511
Joined: 5 Jul 2007, 6:49pm

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby 700c » 8 Dec 2016, 9:45am

Get rid of all discussion that is not about cycling and related activities.

I am moderator on a forum where we have done just that (totally different subject, but you get the idea), that forum is an order of magnitude bigger than this forum; there are still problematic members, but these are simply removed at the first instance of doing "something stupid"...

A lot of people did not like the change to the more dictatorial style; the owner and all the moderators have a much easier life with the rules in place. I banned 20-odd people before finishing this mornings coffee and was happy to do it.

pwa
Posts: 9876
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby pwa » 8 Dec 2016, 9:50am

We can all choose not to read or participate in political threads, so that is one issue addressed.

The moderators do a good job and I hope they carry on with the good work.