Ban Politics from the forum

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.

Politics Too Contentious, Time to Stop!

Poll ended at 9 Dec 2016, 8:33am

No more political threads
9
50%
Politics behind a closed door, opt in only, largely unmoderated
9
50%
 
Total votes: 18

blackbike
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Joined: 11 Jul 2009, 3:21pm

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby blackbike » 9 Dec 2016, 12:56pm

700c wrote:This is a cycling forum, let's stick to cycling chat.

CUK Forum. One will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. One must be cautious.

I'm off to email Head Office to ask for a sea-change, as I am bored of reading certain posters twaddle.


Despite being correct about everything I have no problem seeing twaddle from others.

Canuk
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby Canuk » 9 Dec 2016, 1:51pm

To get serious for a moment, I can't believe some people believe there's nothing wrong with the political threads on the forum.

I've wanted to contribute in the past, but because of the racist and xenophobic minority who seem to dominate them, and because of my ethnicity and background (mixed race, non British) I've been afraid to do so. I've had enough prejudice thrown my way over the years.

If it is indeed Vorpal's desire to keep the forum 'family friendly' then xenophobic and racist posts should be removed immediately. Such is the number. I'm afraid that might be a full time job for someone.

I am genuinely affronted and affected by the posts of late (especially the Blacking Up thread, and the numerous anti EU frankly xenophobic posts).

Something is different in the UK since I visited ten years ago, it's ugly and I do not wish to see it here. It's almost as if 'No blacks or Irish' (substitute any Eastern European /north African nation) is an acceptable, unchallenged ideology again.

Perhaps instead of culling threads, like 700c suggests you should be culling offensive members who regularly air far right and intolerant views. Or do away with Politics altogther. There are literally 1000's of sites in the UK where people can vent their particular ideologies, unmoderated. Why dont you use them?

I'd like to contribute, also I'd like to have voted but as with others Tapatalk won't let me.

This is a Cycling forum, and hopefully an inclusive one, where I would prefer extremists and extreme views aren't tolerated. I had hopes it would be a cycling forum, free from politics, and more importantly free from the far right garbage which seems to pervade almost every media outlet in the UK, to some extent.

I don't want that here. Others have expressed a similar opinion.

I'll comment no more upon it. Thanks for your attention.

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Heltor Chasca
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby Heltor Chasca » 9 Dec 2016, 2:06pm

Canuk wrote:To get serious for a moment, I can't believe some people believe there's nothing wrong with the political threads on the forum.

I've wanted to contribute in the past, but because of the racist and xenophobic minority who seem to dominate them, and because of my ethnicity and background (mixed race, non British) I've been afraid to do so. I've had enough prejudice thrown my way over the years.

If it is indeed Vorpal's desire to keep the forum 'family friendly' then xenophobic and racist posts should be removed immediately. Such is the number. I'm afraid that might be a full time job for someone.

I am genuinely affronted and affected by the posts of late (especially the Blacking Up thread, and the numerous anti EU frankly xenophobic posts).

Something is different in the UK since I visited ten years ago, it's ugly and I do not wish to see it here. It's almost as if 'No blacks or Irish' (substitute any Eastern European /north African nation) is an acceptable, unchallenged ideology again.

Perhaps instead of culling threads, like 700c suggests you should be culling offensive members who regularly air far right and intolerant views. Or do away with Politics altogther. There are literally 1000's of sites in the UK where people can vent their particular ideologies, unmoderated. Why dont you use them?

I'd like to contribute, also I'd like to have voted but as with others Tapatalk won't let me.

This is a Cycling forum, and hopefully an inclusive one, where I would prefer extremists and extreme views aren't tolerated. I had hopes it would be a cycling forum, free from politics, and more importantly free from the far right garbage which seems to pervade almost every media outlet in the UK, to some extent.

I don't want that here. Others have expressed a similar opinion.

I'll comment no more upon it. Thanks for your attention.


+1 Personally I have risen to the bait, and because of my background, like to speak up for myself. Perhaps I would be better off ignoring the recent, almost constant diatribe.

I think that's the crux of it: This is a cycling forum now dominated by an angry, vociferous minority. How did this happen?

I certainly wouldn't let my kids onto this forum. The long term effect of that is obvious. Newcomers do not know that this forum is not representative of CUK. And why would they? It is branded all over with CUK.

If I was a newbie to CTC/CUK you wouldn't catch me dead joining an event or ride.

A shake up is needed.

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NUKe
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Location: Suffolk

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby NUKe » 9 Dec 2016, 2:09pm

Canuk wrote:To get serious for a moment, I can't believe some people believe there's nothing wrong with the political threads on the forum.

I've wanted to contribute in the past, but because of the racist and xenophobic minority who seem to dominate them, and because of my ethnicity and background (mixed race, non British) I've been afraid to do so. I've had enough prejudice thrown my way over the years.

If it is indeed Vorpal's desire to keep the forum 'family friendly' then xenophobic and racist posts should be removed immediately. Such is the number. I'm afraid that might be a full time job for someone.

I am genuinely affronted and affected by the posts of late (especially the Blacking Up thread, and the numerous anti EU frankly xenophobic posts).

Something is different in the UK since I visited ten years ago, it's ugly and I do not wish to see it here. It's almost as if 'No blacks or Irish' (substitute any Eastern European /north African nation) is an acceptable, unchallenged ideology again.

Perhaps instead of culling threads, like 700c suggests you should be culling offensive members who regularly air far right and intolerant views. Or do away with Politics altogther. There are literally 1000's of sites in the UK where people can vent their particular ideologies, unmoderated. Why dont you use them?

I'd like to contribute, also I'd like to have voted but as with others Tapatalk won't let me.

This is a Cycling forum, and hopefully an inclusive one, where I would prefer extremists and extreme views aren't tolerated. I had hopes it would be a cycling forum, free from politics, and more importantly free from the far right garbage which seems to pervade almost every media outlet in the UK, to some extent.

I don't want that here. Others have expressed a similar opinion.

I'll comment no more upon it. Thanks for your attention.

I for one wish you would speak-up and not be Frightened CanUK, and this was a refreshing post.

The moderators do jump on threads of an extreme nature, but it is worth letting them know, if you find something uncomfortable, using the report thread button. They also seem to remove the truly vile posters either that or the overall liberalism engulfs them and they get bored.
NUKe
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bovlomov
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby bovlomov » 9 Dec 2016, 2:14pm

Canuk wrote:...where I would prefer extremists and extreme views aren't tolerated. I had hopes it would be a cycling forum, free from politics, and more importantly free from the far right garbage which seems to pervade almost every media outlet in the UK, to some extent.

I'm not comfortable with the left/right labels, and I don't understand why far right always equals racist. Some of what has been described on this forum as racist, is not - even if one might suspect that the motives for posting it are racist.

Also, unlike Cameron and May, I see nothing inherently wrong with extreme views. In any democracy there will be people with views at the edge, and they should be allowed to express them. If these views amount to incitement or harassment, then that is how they should be described.

If political threads are to be closed down here, it could be because the mods are fed up with trolls, or they are fed up with the tone of some arguments. I hope it isn't because of any unorthodox opinions expressed - however uncomfortable they may make us.

Psamathe
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby Psamathe » 9 Dec 2016, 2:16pm

Edwards wrote:All this reminds me of a certain vote in June this year. The result was about the same as this poll is now 53% for gone 47% for keeping.

Is this democracy at work?

I comparative vote to the recent EU referendum would have been a referendum with two choices "Do you want a hard Brexit or a Soft Brexit" (because we would have been starting from the assumption that the EU was flawed and a major problem ... And those who though it wasn't would have had no voice what so ever - shows you what you can do by designing your poll badly.

Ian

Psamathe
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby Psamathe » 9 Dec 2016, 2:21pm

Canuk wrote:To get serious for a moment, I can't believe some people believe there's nothing wrong with the political threads on the forum.

I've wanted to contribute in the past, but because of the racist and xenophobic minority who seem to dominate them, and because of my ethnicity and background (mixed race, non British) I've been afraid to do so. I've had enough prejudice thrown my way over the years.

If it is indeed Vorpal's desire to keep the forum 'family friendly' then xenophobic and racist posts should be removed immediately. Such is the number. I'm afraid that might be a full time job for someone.
....

I don't think we are on the same forum. I participate on http://forum.cyclinguk.org/index.php and maybe an occasional bad post/poster (which is promptly removed) but I don't recognise the massive issue you describe.

And as one of "the minority who seem to dominate" you have in effect called me "racist and xenophobic" - so who is posting nasty stuff now? People need to remember that just because you don't agree with it it is not automatically "racist and xenophobic". In fact I think it is a credit to those to the forum that such (sometimes) contentious issues are discussed by people with very different opinions and it mostly remains polite and civilised - a real credit to the participants, forum and moderation.

Ian

blackbike
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby blackbike » 9 Dec 2016, 2:23pm

Canuk wrote:To get serious for a moment, I can't believe some people believe there's nothing wrong with the political threads on the forum.

I've wanted to contribute in the past, but because of the racist and xenophobic minority who seem to dominate them, and because of my ethnicity and background (mixed race, non British) I've been afraid to do so. I've had enough prejudice thrown my way over the years.

If it is indeed Vorpal's desire to keep the forum 'family friendly' then xenophobic and racist posts should be removed immediately. Such is the number. I'm afraid that might be a full time job for someone.

I am genuinely affronted and affected by the posts of late (especially the Blacking Up thread, and the numerous anti EU frankly xenophobic posts).

Something is different in the UK since I visited ten years ago, it's ugly and I do not wish to see it here. It's almost as if 'No blacks or Irish' (substitute any Eastern European /north African nation) is an acceptable, unchallenged ideology again.

Perhaps instead of culling threads, like 700c suggests you should be culling offensive members who regularly air far right and intolerant views. Or do away with Politics altogther. There are literally 1000's of sites in the UK where people can vent their particular ideologies, unmoderated. Why dont you use them?

I'd like to contribute, also I'd like to have voted but as with others Tapatalk won't let me.

This is a Cycling forum, and hopefully an inclusive one, where I would prefer extremists and extreme views aren't tolerated. I had hopes it would be a cycling forum, free from politics, and more importantly free from the far right garbage which seems to pervade almost every media outlet in the UK, to some extent.

I don't want that here. Others have expressed a similar opinion.

I'll comment no more upon it. Thanks for your attention.



It sounds like certain people are having problems tolerating the views of others.

Do we want intolerant people on our forum, telling the rest of us what we can and can't discuss?

Surely they should be banned, not pandered to.

In my view it is extremist for a person to advocate the removal of topics from a forum just because they don't like what they read, especially as they don't need to read them.

We should not tolerate extremism on here.

The Tea Shop is not a cycling forum. Read the menu page. It is for non-cycling discussion.

Psamathe
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby Psamathe » 9 Dec 2016, 2:29pm

Canuk wrote:...
I don't want that here. .....

So no allowance made for what others may want. Particularly given that you are not forced to read such threads and can easily avoid them yet that they exist anywhere on the forum offends you that you want them just banned ? (even though others enjoy them, find them useful, etc.)

I want football banned from TV (I don't have to watch it but I just don't like it on TV), I want TV cooking programs banned (I hate them, don't have to watch them but they should be banned because I don't like them), I want TV dancing competitions banned (I also hate them and yet still have to contribute financially to them - so even though I don't have to watch them, get rid of them), etc. Are those reasonable demands ?

Ian

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meic
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby meic » 9 Dec 2016, 2:46pm

It isnt the CUK forum's job to help out the greater society by creating a public debating space which isnt suffering from the very destructive "echo chamber" effect where people carefully select which sort of people they are willing to talk with.
So it doesnt have a moral obligation to continue providing a platform where people from across the spectrum can meet and discuss in a civilised manner.
It is just a cycle forum with a tea shop for a bit of natter.

People from both extremes can retreat to their own private enclaves preaching to like minded people, safe in the knowledge that they dont have to put up with any dissent. Then being totally amazed every time the public are allowed the freedom of the ballot box.

It isnt the Forum's responsibility to try and prevent this by providing a platform for debate in an area that attracts people from across the political spectrum.
Yma o Hyd

mercalia
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby mercalia » 9 Dec 2016, 2:58pm

this place useful for getting a thick skin so not easily offended? really hard in real life where you may get beaten up :lol:

Psamathe
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby Psamathe » 9 Dec 2016, 3:05pm

meic wrote:It isnt the CUK forum's job to help out the greater society by creating a public debating space which isnt suffering from the very destructive "echo chamber" effect where people carefully select which sort of people they are willing to talk with....

CTC Objectives
As approved by the members of CTC at its AGM on 14 May 2011 wrote:4. promote the conservation and protection of the environment.

But to discuss that would be political (often using words like "Conservative and Labour" - words that even now crop up very very rarely in the current affairs threads). So ban discussing current affairs and you ban discussing one of the 4 listed CTC/CUK objectives !!

I actually find discussing things with people who hold differing opinions very useful. I may not change my mind but appreciating why people hold often radically differing views is very helpful plus it makes you question your own beliefs. As you say, discussing things with people who agree with your view does nothing more than re-enforce one's own (undoubtedly flawed) opinions.

And these days so much cycle related stuff is political. Different parties have different (and invariably flawed) policies towards cycling, roads and transport all of which have massive impact on our cycling. And add in the pressures of the economy, etc. current affairs thread the other day was calling for people to register objections to a Council who had plans/consultation that would have had a negative impact on one of the UK's National cycle Routes - political so should that have been banned (despite furthering the aims of most people on the forum)?

Ian
Last edited by Psamathe on 9 Dec 2016, 3:11pm, edited 1 time in total.

700c
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby 700c » 9 Dec 2016, 3:08pm

It is this forums responsibility to present a welcoming and friendly face for CUK.

If I was anything to do with CUK, I'd be closing this forum down today, and that is due to just
a handful of vociferous members who feel like they can say anything with impunity...there are
certain people on this forum who make me want to leave it well alone.

There are a few, just a few, who post such interesting things that I don't really want to leave.

irc
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby irc » 9 Dec 2016, 3:11pm

Canuk wrote:I've wanted to contribute in the past, but because of the racist and xenophobic minority who seem to dominate them, and because of my ethnicity and background (mixed race, non British) I've been afraid to do so...


Until you told us your ethnic background was unknown. Why would it stop you contributing?


Canuk wrote:I am genuinely affronted and affected by the posts of late (especially the Blacking Up thread, and the numerous anti EU frankly xenophobic posts).


Being anti-EU is not racist. 52% of the electorate who chose to vote in the referendum were anti EU. Are they all racists?

Canuk wrote:Perhaps instead of culling threads, like 700c suggests you should be culling offensive members who regularly air far right and intolerant views. Or do away with Politics altogther. There are literally 1000's of sites in the UK where people can vent their particular ideologies, unmoderated. Why dont you use them?


I find discussions more interesting when there are a variety of views. I don't recognise your view of the forum as full of extreme views. Maybe you just have a low tolerance for people who disagree with you?


Canuk wrote:I had hopes it would be a cycling forum, free from politics, and more importantly free from the far right garbage which seems to pervade almost every media outlet in the UK, to some extent.


Almost every media outlet spouting far right garbage? Come on! How are you defining "far right." Anyone left of the LibDems?

Psamathe
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby Psamathe » 9 Dec 2016, 3:28pm

700c wrote:....there are certain people on this forum who make me want to leave it well alone.....

Just like life then.

There is a system where you can block posts from individuals you chose (moderately successful - apparently it used to still show posts where they were quoted, but apparently filters out a lot of stuff from people your select).

Alternatively, just don't read the more current affairs threads - problem solved.

Ian