Ban Politics from the forum

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Politics Too Contentious, Time to Stop!

Poll ended at 9 Dec 2016, 8:33am

No more political threads
9
50%
Politics behind a closed door, opt in only, largely unmoderated
9
50%
 
Total votes: 18

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meic
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Post by meic »

There are a few, just a few, who post such interesting things that I don't really want to leave.
Is it the same few that appeal to everybody?
Or a lot of different fews appealing to lots of other fews, which ends up covering a lot of people in the end.

Possibly we could throw in the existing hand of people and set up a brand new forum which is far more popular or not as popular.
Yma o Hyd
geocycle
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Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 9:46am

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Post by geocycle »

Canuk wrote:To get serious for a moment, I can't believe some people believe there's nothing wrong with the political threads on the forum.

I've wanted to contribute in the past, but because of the racist and xenophobic minority who seem to dominate them, and because of my ethnicity and background (mixed race, non British) I've been afraid to do so. I've had enough prejudice thrown my way over the years.

If it is indeed Vorpal's desire to keep the forum 'family friendly' then xenophobic and racist posts should be removed immediately. Such is the number. I'm afraid that might be a full time job for someone.

I am genuinely affronted and affected by the posts of late (especially the Blacking Up thread, and the numerous anti EU frankly xenophobic posts).

Something is different in the UK since I visited ten years ago, it's ugly and I do not wish to see it here. It's almost as if 'No blacks or Irish' (substitute any Eastern European /north African nation) is an acceptable, unchallenged ideology again.

Perhaps instead of culling threads, like 700c suggests you should be culling offensive members who regularly air far right and intolerant views. Or do away with Politics altogther. There are literally 1000's of sites in the UK where people can vent their particular ideologies, unmoderated. Why dont you use them?

I'd like to contribute, also I'd like to have voted but as with others Tapatalk won't let me.

This is a Cycling forum, and hopefully an inclusive one, where I would prefer extremists and extreme views aren't tolerated. I had hopes it would be a cycling forum, free from politics, and more importantly free from the far right garbage which seems to pervade almost every media outlet in the UK, to some extent.

I don't want that here. Others have expressed a similar opinion.

I'll comment no more upon it. Thanks for your attention.


Well said, I agree with most of that and I am also sad that you do not feel comfortable to contribute to a cycling forum.
roubaixtuesday
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Post by roubaixtuesday »

I am genuinely affronted and affected by the posts of late (especially the Blacking Up thread, and the numerous anti EU frankly xenophobic posts).


IMO those making these posts should reflect on this before posting again.
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mjr
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Post by mjr »

Psamathe wrote:
Canuk wrote:...
I don't want that here. .....

So no allowance made for what others may want. Particularly given that you are not forced to read such threads and can easily avoid them yet that they exist anywhere on the forum offends you that you want them just banned ? (even though others enjoy them, find them useful, etc.)

You can't easily avoid them. Some of the offensive posts are "submarined" under other titles into inappropriate forums.

I don't think this is about Psamathe's posts. I have reported examples that I felt clearly breached the CUK policy banning racial harassment ("unwanted conduct related to a relevant protected characteristic which has the purpose or effect of violating the individual’s dignity or creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment") and was told that "it is useful to let the words brand the author" which I wasn't happy about but didn't take further.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
tyreon
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Joined: 4 Oct 2012, 4:39pm

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Post by tyreon »

I tend to think it very unwise to ban anything,well that which is written or spoken. That which is spoken or read can highlight suppressed news or behaviours that are seen as inappropriate. I would like to highlight some here again,but from the banning view or finding topics offensive,I'm now going back to 'hiding mode'. It really is intimidation. From what I have read here I have found no posts offensive(maybe the moderator has extracted inappropriate posts). I guess if any posts are that offensive,let's call the police. Wow,how repressive to have thought police about. Howsoever I shouldn't be shocked,some debate must never be had...ever. Is it too late for me to bring in my reservations about humour. Any humour. I have a link here. I don't find humour funny. Isn't humour always at some beings expense? This,too,is intolerable+++ :(
AlaninWales
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Post by AlaninWales »

BrianFox wrote:
I am genuinely affronted and affected by the posts of late (especially the Blacking Up thread, and the numerous anti EU frankly xenophobic posts).


IMO those making these posts should reflect on this before posting again.

As I said before regarding the "paki" and the blacking up discussions: Some people asked (IMO genuinely uncertain, but if not the question can easily be treated as such) why these were still offensive. They were answered (effectively - again IMO). Neither constituted 'political' discussion (so I am not sure why they get pulled into threads about banning or side-lining political discussions - apart from more straw targets perhaps). Both were educational for some.

If people are offended because some people are not aware of such issues then (a) these people are incredibly thin skinned and (b) they will never achieve universal understanding of what offends them, because they are too offended to explain!


Equating anti-EU views with xenophobia is popular but mistaken and lacking in logic. Apparently those who make this false equivalence believe the whole world consists of Europe. One reason I am anti-EU is because it promotes giving advantage (in jobs, benefits and customs duties) to Europeans over non-Europeans. If you cannot work out how that is racist, then I suggest you check out how big the world is outside of Europe.
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mjr
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Post by mjr »

tyreon wrote:I tend to think it very unwise to ban anything,well that which is written or spoken.

Wise or not, it's been illegal for a long time to write or say certain things which result in harm to others, from directly harmful like libel through to indirect like incitement and solicitation.

tyreon wrote:That which is spoken or read can highlight suppressed news or behaviours that are seen as inappropriate. I would like to highlight some here again,but from the banning view or finding topics offensive,I'm now going back to 'hiding mode'. It really is intimidation. From what I have read here I have found no posts offensive(maybe the moderator has extracted inappropriate posts). I guess if any posts are that offensive,let's call the police. Wow,how repressive to have thought police about.

Once it is written or spoken, it isn't merely thought any more. I've reported writings to the police in the past (not from this forum as far as I can recall, although I remember police getting involved about stuff on here) and I expect I'll do so again.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
blackbike
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Post by blackbike »

BrianFox wrote:
I am genuinely affronted and affected by the posts of late (especially the Blacking Up thread, and the numerous anti EU frankly xenophobic posts).


IMO those making these posts should reflect on this before posting again.


Why?

The person who is 'genuinely affronted' should simply stop reading those posts.

There is no reason for others to watch what they say, to effectively self-censor, just because we have an easily offended, over-sensitive person in our midst who doesn't like to read anti-EU comments.

I note that the person who is 'genuinely affronted' by the views of others and thinks they should be removed from his view has no qualms about insulting other members of the forum by describing them as xenophobic. He can hand it out but he can't take it!

We should discourage intolerant people from coming on to the Tea Shop, not run it for their benefit so they have a nice place to come to read bland opinions from others while they find it acceptable to hand out frank opinions whenever they want to.

PS. Brexit is wonderful. Up yours Junckers!
tyreon
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Joined: 4 Oct 2012, 4:39pm

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Post by tyreon »

I think self-editing by intimidation very dangerous. I feel paranoia creeping all over me. I would like to raise some subjects here and now but feel intimidated. I feel threatened. Seriously. I feel myself shutting up. Wow,now I know some things you can't raise. Speaking just for myself,this is why I left Labour - fear. You know you can only raise some topics that the thought police want you to raise. You have to pick up by intuition those you must not. Frightening.
Edwards
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Post by Edwards »

blackbike wrote:
BrianFox wrote:
I am genuinely affronted and affected by the posts of late (especially the Blacking Up thread, and the numerous anti EU frankly xenophobic posts).


IMO those making these posts should reflect on this before posting again.


Why?

The person who is 'genuinely affronted' should simply stop reading those posts.

There is no reason for others to watch what they say, to effectively self-censor, just because we have an easily offended, over-sensitive person in our midst who doesn't like to read anti-EU comments.

I note that the person who is 'genuinely affronted' by the views of others and thinks they should be removed from his view has no qualms about insulting other members of the forum by describing them as xenophobic. He can hand it out but he can't take it!

We should discourage intolerant people from coming on to the Tea Shop, not run it for their benefit so they have a nice place to come to read bland opinions from others while they find it acceptable to hand out frank opinions whenever they want to.

PS. Brexit is wonderful. Up yours Junckers!



This in my opinion is exactly the reason why political posts and threads should be in a sub forum.

Ps I think you will find he said some of the posts as you describe not the person.
Keith Edwards
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meic
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Post by meic »

A bit of self censoring out of empathy wouldnt go amiss, even if others cant manage it.
Yma o Hyd
roubaixtuesday
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Post by roubaixtuesday »

What meic said
blackbike
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Post by blackbike »

Edwards wrote:
blackbike wrote:
BrianFox wrote:
IMO those making these posts should reflect on this before posting again.


Why?

The person who is 'genuinely affronted' should simply stop reading those posts.

There is no reason for others to watch what they say, to effectively self-censor, just because we have an easily offended, over-sensitive person in our midst who doesn't like to read anti-EU comments.

I note that the person who is 'genuinely affronted' by the views of others and thinks they should be removed from his view has no qualms about insulting other members of the forum by describing them as xenophobic. He can hand it out but he can't take it!

We should discourage intolerant people from coming on to the Tea Shop, not run it for their benefit so they have a nice place to come to read bland opinions from others while they find it acceptable to hand out frank opinions whenever they want to.

PS. Brexit is wonderful. Up yours Junckers!



This in my opinion is exactly the reason why political posts and threads should be in a sub forum.



Your reply is exactly why I suggested that we have a new password protected sub forum where people who are easily offended or intolerant of others opinions can go, leaving the rest of us to carry on as we do now in this one.

If we are to shunt some members off to a new sub forum it should be the minority who have problems with a mainstream forum open to all, not the majority who can cope with it.
kwackers
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Post by kwackers »

AlaninWales wrote:One reason I am anti-EU is because it promotes giving advantage (in jobs, benefits and customs duties) to Europeans over non-Europeans. If you cannot work out how that is racist, then I suggest you check out how big the world is outside of Europe.

So now we only give jobs to Brits and that's somehow better?

Or perhaps you're suggesting that everyone who isn't a brit now has the same chance of getting a job here and so that's fairer - because looking after your own isn't racist - but then if you consider yourself European why is that worse than considering yourself British since you're still looking after "your own"?

I'm somewhat puzzled how we've improved the "racist" outlook you obviously think we had as Europeans by pulling out...
PDQ Mobile
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Just my twopenneth about the OPs topic.
I agree with the posters that think this Forum is an exceptional place.
I don't think the Forum needs a special section.
If one is not interested then avoidance is very easy.
However having said that I would be happy to see a "Politics Only", if it was considered necessary to enable the continued interesting debate found on here.

Most of the heated debate recently is about Brexit, it is an issue which deeply divides the nation and people feel very strongly about it; rightly so, for it is the most important issue of the generation.
Generally though, on here, debate has been polite, well informed and pretty constructive. (with a few notable exceptions).
That is the importance of debate.
Correctly used, it is an attempt to find consensus where no consensus existed before.

I have occasionally ventured onto the BBC "comments" section and debate there is almost unreadable, mostly because of personal mudslinging.

"Thirdcrank" pointed out somewhere (that I cannot find ) that the written word is very often subject to misunderstanding/ misinterpretation. Partly, I think, because the visual cues in normal discourse are missing and partly because time and space compromise the message.
This is so very true and can lead into further escalation of conflict.
Hard to avoid but possible with a recognition of the limitations.

I think the mods do a very good job on the whole. I did not see the posts that caused the deletion (of the other 2 threads), so cannot comment.
It must be said though that there have been (IMHO) very occasional overzealous deletions of whole topics.


Ps. It is the spirit of debate and discourse that I like about the EU.
I always perceived it more democratic than Westminster.

Single personalities within it are of only small consequence to the whole.
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