Ban Politics from the forum

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.

Politics Too Contentious, Time to Stop!

Poll ended at 9 Dec 2016, 8:33am

No more political threads
9
50%
Politics behind a closed door, opt in only, largely unmoderated
9
50%
 
Total votes: 18

Edwards
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby Edwards » 9 Dec 2016, 6:28pm

blackbike wrote:If we are to shunt some members off to a new sub forum it should be the minority who have problems with a mainstream forum open to all, not the majority who can cope with it


You are making a strange claim as the majority do not post on the political threads and the voting in this topic does not seem to be inline with those claims.

Unless you claim to be the spokesperson for the majority again?
Keith Edwards
I do not care about spelling and grammar

blackbike
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Joined: 11 Jul 2009, 3:21pm

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby blackbike » 9 Dec 2016, 7:09pm

Edwards wrote:
blackbike wrote:If we are to shunt some members off to a new sub forum it should be the minority who have problems with a mainstream forum open to all, not the majority who can cope with it


You are making a strange claim as the majority do not post on the political threads and the voting in this topic does not seem to be inline with those claims.

Unless you claim to be the spokesperson for the majority again?


There are 31740 members of this forum.

18 of them have voted for a change to the Tea Shop.

31722 haven't.

I'm one of that 31722, so I'm in a majority of 99.9%.

So lets have a nice new sub forum for those 18 where they can be nice to each other all the time, never disagree and where nobody is allowed to say anything horrible about the EU.

The rest of us can just carry on in the Tea Shop where frank. open discussion of politics is something we can cope with.

Edwards
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Location: Birmingham

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby Edwards » 9 Dec 2016, 7:26pm

How many people take part in the political threads?
Keith Edwards
I do not care about spelling and grammar

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661-Pete
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby 661-Pete » 9 Dec 2016, 7:35pm

It's fairly clear that the person who is busiest at ridiculing the whole idea of a political section, and is also busiest at disparaging anyone whose views do not coincide with their own, is also the one with a strong and highly controversial political agenda of their own to pursue.

Need I say more?
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

Psamathe
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby Psamathe » 9 Dec 2016, 9:20pm

661-Pete wrote:It's fairly clear that the person who is busiest at ridiculing the whole idea of a political section, and is also busiest at disparaging anyone whose views do not coincide with their own, is also the one with a strong and highly controversial political agenda of their own to pursue.

Need I say more?

I probably don't completely agree. I don't take the posts I think you are referring to as being particularly disparaging about anybody. However I do find it particularly disappointing that some commenting how offended they are bout the current affairs thread refuse to avoid them but seem to be avid readers whilst taking offence from them. I'm a very frequent visitor to those threads and I've not seen the offending posts (that we are told the mods were slow to delete) yet people with no interest in these types of thread seem to be watching them so closely as to spot these posts that even I miss (all of them) and then keep getting offended. It does not seem to make any sense.

People who are so offended by these threads don't seem able to explain why they don't just ignore them (and not read them).

What would the world be like if everybody refused to ignore things they dislike (but others found useful) and demanded it banned? As I commented before, I don't like football (e.g. on TV) but I ignore it rather than demand it be banned.

Ian

mercalia
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Location: london South

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby mercalia » 9 Dec 2016, 11:50pm

seems like some here want to impose their view on how things should be on others rather than assume responsibility for what they choose to read or not - I dont know whats worse , that or some here with extreme views. give me the latter any day. its not as if titles are misleading - "Noddy goes to toyland" is really about Trump visits Russia. Mary Whitehouse mentality?

I wonder what would be discussed here otherwise?

or maybe have a "Coffee Shop" or "The Local" - leave the Tea Shop to those of fragile disposition? Let it stagnate and die of stale sandwichs and teabags? :wink: Why was "Tea shop" chosen and by whom - is a bit quaint, dont know any tea shops, coffee houses yes -

The Troubdour started life as a proper Bohemian coffee shop where writers scribbled, poets mused and musicians composed.

Image

http://www.missimmyslondon.com/2012/10/the-troubadour-garret.html

700c
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Joined: 5 Jul 2007, 6:49pm

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby 700c » 10 Dec 2016, 10:54am

I'm not offended in the slightest by anything anyone says.
I am bored to tears of certain posters inane twaddle...that isn't about cycling.

Cycling: ok
Cycling and Inane: ok
Not cycling: ho hum
Not cycling and inane: would rather watch paint dry

CUK needs to realise that this forum is a tool of theirs, not a tool of ours.

irc
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Location: glasgow

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby irc » 10 Dec 2016, 11:08am

mercalia wrote:or maybe have a "Coffee Shop" or "The Local" - leave the Tea Shop to those of fragile disposition? Let it stagnate and die of stale sandwichs and teabags? :wink:


Yes, maybe the "Tea Shop" does hint to much of tea and scones with a raised pinky. Genteel chat without saying much. Leave it be and have a new "Pub" section. Where a wide range of different opinions can be expressed. Leaving the Tea Shoppe for off topic non cycling chat of a non controversial nature for the easily offended.

SpannerGeek
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Joined: 12 Nov 2015, 2:16pm

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby SpannerGeek » 10 Dec 2016, 11:25am

Edwards wrote:How many people take part in the political threads?


Via a rough count of the 70 page Brexit thread, probably about 30 regular contributors,  at least 10% of whom have expressed a wish to vote 'no thanks' to politics but haven't been able to do do on account of Tapatalk limitations.

The mere fact that people are afraid to contribute on posts,  for fear of vilification or harassment, well any mod worth their salt would know what to do.  Family friendly  (as many have clearly stated) the Tearoom is not.  The response of those defending it says all we need to know.

There are many references (and direct comparisons) with television throughout this thread.  If racist and xenophobic material was published (as posters publish here) on national TV, that channel would be instantly censured by the Ombudsman,  fined,  and likely a police investigation. The offending presenter and programme would likely be taken off the air.  Think 'Top Gear' for example.

I can't understand when people try to differentiate between TV and the internet.  They are both broadcast mediums,  both highly visible, both fundamentally 'free to air', only one is regulated,  the other is not.  This is no defence to the allegations brought in this thread.

No one should be afraid to contribute,  on grounds of opprobrium and oppression faced because of their ethnicity, colour or gender.

I think the demographic stated previously is apt. How many women contribute to the politics forum?  That would be an interesting statistic. Not many I'd very venture.

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meic
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby meic » 10 Dec 2016, 11:33am

The demographic of the forum, reflects the demographic of UK cyclists because it is a UK cycling forum.
Which happens to be mostly male and white because that is the ground it is harvested from.

If the politics forum appears to be skewed from that demographic to be even more white and male, that is probably because everybody is assumed to be exactly that, unless they explicitly state otherwise!
Yma o Hyd

Ben@Forest
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby Ben@Forest » 10 Dec 2016, 12:07pm

SpannerGeek wrote: If racist and xenophobic material was published (as posters publish here) on national TV, that channel would be instantly censured by the Ombudsman,  fined,  and likely a police investigation. The offending presenter and programme would likely be taken off the air.  Think 'Top Gear' for example.


1. Top Gear was not taken off the air. It still exists on BBC and another series is being filmed.
2. The reason the offending presenter was sacked was because he punched a a BBC employee/member the production team, not because of racism. (There was an inference that the presenter referred to the producer's nationality in a derogatory fashion during the incident but it was not part of the internal inquiry's findings - he was sacked for assault).

Your idea of racism or xenophobic material is not necessarily what other people consider racist or xenophobic, or even what the law considers racist or xenophobic. I don't think there is much at all of that material written here. What is written is people accusing other people of being racist or xenophobic. This is generally baseless and says more about the quality of argument that the accuser can bring to bear.

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bovlomov
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby bovlomov » 10 Dec 2016, 12:09pm

SpannerGeek wrote:No one should be afraid to contribute,  on grounds of opprobrium and oppression faced because of their ethnicity, colour or gender.

Has that happened? I've seen nothing like it.

Psamathe
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby Psamathe » 10 Dec 2016, 12:15pm

bovlomov wrote:
SpannerGeek wrote:No one should be afraid to contribute,  on grounds of opprobrium and oppression faced because of their ethnicity, colour or gender.

Has that happened? I've seen nothing like it.

Likewise. People keep taking about all these racist and xenophobic posts flooding the forum but I, as a pretty regular visitor here (given the weather at the moment) seem to have missed them all!

Ian

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bovlomov
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Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby bovlomov » 10 Dec 2016, 12:20pm

meic wrote:The demographic of the forum, reflects the demographic of UK cyclists because it is a UK cycling forum.
Which happens to be mostly male and white because that is the ground it is harvested from.

If the politics forum appears to be skewed from that demographic to be even more white and male, that is probably because everybody is assumed to be exactly that, unless they explicitly state otherwise!

Should we be discussing whether white males here should 'check their privilege' before posting?

Ben@Forest
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Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 5:58pm

Re: Ban Politics from the forum

Postby Ben@Forest » 10 Dec 2016, 12:21pm

Psamathe wrote:
bovlomov wrote:
SpannerGeek wrote:No one should be afraid to contribute,  on grounds of opprobrium and oppression faced because of their ethnicity, colour or gender.

Has that happened? I've seen nothing like it.

Likewise. People keep taking about all these racist and xenophobic posts flooding the forum but I, as a pretty regular visitor here (given the weather at the moment) seem to have missed them all!


It's one of those questions we can't win. The next poll will be - Are you a female BAME? And when the poll is expectedly small the pollster can point to all sorts of misogyny and cultural oppression in cycling forums.....