Do we have statesmen/Stateswomen any more, are politician today inferior to those from the past?

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YEWBAB
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Do we have statesmen/Stateswomen any more, are politician today inferior to those from the past?

Post by YEWBAB »

Do we have statesmen/Stateswomen any more, are politician today inferior to those from the past?

Has reorganisation of management functions in society generally result in poorer management decision or are thing better today?
tanglewood
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Re: Do we have statesmen/Stateswomen any more, are politician today inferior to those from the past?

Post by tanglewood »

By any objective measure more people in the world, and a higher proportion, are enjoying a dignified life than ever before. So if you think that is the result of good politics and governance (rather than simply the effect of abundant energy) then someone is doing something right.


I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my wobbly bog brush using hovercraft full of eels
mercalia
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Re: Do we have statesmen/Stateswomen any more, are politician today inferior to those from the past?

Post by mercalia »

tanglewood wrote:By any objective measure more people in the world, and a higher proportion, are enjoying a dignified life than ever before. So if you think that is the result of good politics and governance (rather than simply the effect of abundant energy) then someone is doing something right.


Flushed down the thunderbox : my wobbly bog brush using hovercraft full of eels


dont think so - its just that the even the greedy there is more than they want so the proles can have some crumbs.
francovendee
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Re: Do we have statesmen/Stateswomen any more, are politician today inferior to those from the past?

Post by francovendee »

mercalia wrote:
tanglewood wrote:By any objective measure more people in the world, and a higher proportion, are enjoying a dignified life than ever before. So if you think that is the result of good politics and governance (rather than simply the effect of abundant energy) then someone is doing something right.


Flushed down the thunderbox : my wobbly bog brush using hovercraft full of eels


dont think so - its just that the even the greedy there is more than they want so the proles can have some crumbs.

+1
tanglewood
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Re: Do we have statesmen/Stateswomen any more, are politician today inferior to those from the past?

Post by tanglewood »

Please read and view the work of Hans Rosling. You will be overjoyed - such fantastic news, so well presented by such a credible person will lift your gloom, I promise.

https://m.gapminder.org/videos/dont-panic-end-poverty/


I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my wobbly bog brush using hovercraft full of eels
Ruadh495
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Re: Do we have statesmen/Stateswomen any more, are politician today inferior to those from the past?

Post by Ruadh495 »

Yes, society as it exists today is providing a better life for more people than ever before.

I'm inclined to think that's due to the efforts of scientists and engineers; and despite those of politicians, though...
Vorpal
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Re: Do we have statesmen/Stateswomen any more, are politician today inferior to those from the past?

Post by Vorpal »

Inferior? In what way? controversy? Personal values? Demonstration of integrity?

Consider the very public battles between figures such as Churchill, Chamberlain, and Halifax, and how controversial were the political events of 2 and 3 generations ago. How, for example Churchill was forced out of government over Gallipolli, then later lost backing for a number of initiatives through his support for Edward VIII.

What do you mean by statesmen/statewoman? Do you have to agree with their philosophy to call someone that? Was Winston Churchill a statesman? I would argue that he was, even if I would at the same time criticise his economic policies, which benefitted primarily his own class.

I think Prime Minister May fits the decription of stateswoman pretty well. Even though I disagree with many of the Conservative party philosphies, and current government policies, I respect Ms. May, and I think that she is a both a good politician and a good stateswoman. I respect her for her intelligence, integrity, and long service to the country.

People are political creatures and always have been. I really can't see that the current crop of politicians are any better or worse than those of history.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
Ruadh495
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Re: Do we have statesmen/Stateswomen any more, are politician today inferior to those from the past?

Post by Ruadh495 »

Good point. Can one admire a politician for their reasoning, personal integrity, the quality of their public speaking while still disagreeing with their views and policies? Any recent examples who were admirable in that way?

Mrs Thatcher had a certain integrity. She was probably the last UK PM with an ideology rather than "what will get me/us into power and keep me/us there".
irc
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Re: Do we have statesmen/Stateswomen any more, are politician today inferior to those from the past?

Post by irc »

mercalia wrote:
tanglewood wrote:By any objective measure more people in the world, and a higher proportion, are enjoying a dignified life than ever before. So if you think that is the result of good politics and governance (rather than simply the effect of abundant energy) then someone is doing something right.


dont think so - its just that the even the greedy there is more than they want so the proles can have some crumbs.


Some people will never be happy. There is two ways of looking at it. I take the view that (on around average UK household income) we have all we need. We can buy all of what we need and much of what we want. Of course many people are wealthier. I don't think they are any happier.

Looking back 35 years at that time there were far fewer cars than now. So on average we are all wealthier in real terms. We are also wealthier in terms of things we have that weren't around 35 years ago. I worked in a poor area of Glasgow in the late 70s where almost nobody had a car or a house phone. In the same area now not all but probably half or more households have a car. As well as house phones or instead everyone has a mobile phone. Everyone has access to the internet.

Looking further back my father was brought up in a fairly typical working class area of Glasgow in the 1930s. Not a slum, just poor like most people were. My grandfather had been a ships engineer. Life was still pretty much Victorian. Local deliveries were by horse and cart. The barges on the canal were horse drawn. There were no fridges, TVs, plastics, man-made fabrics etc etc. One outside toilet per 3 households. One coal fire per house for heating


We are all better off than we were. Of course it isn't perfect but given the choice of living here now or any decade prior to the 70s I'd go with now. The average person now, taking into account health, material possessions, comfortable homes, and things like easy cheap travel and modern communications in better of than anyone was 60 years ago.

And some of it is down to good governance and society. The proof? Look at East Germany V West Germany. Same people, same landscape, different governments. Or North Korea V South Korea. Scientists and engineers need the right society to operate. North Korea has scientists capable of developing nuclear weapons. I wouldn't want to live there.
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