Brexit and Farming.

[Drake]

I doubt that this country will ever be self sufficient in food production, but if brexit goes a head should there be more investment in home produced food, and less reliance on imports ?

[roubaixtuesday]

The opposite outcome is probably much more likely.

The EU is very protectionist on agriculture, and it's an area normally to the fore in trade negotiations.

As one of the purposes of Brexit was to negotiate more free trade deals with non-EU countries and they are certain to want agricultural products to be part of that, the most likely outcome is a move towards more reliance on imports, but lower food prices as a result.

Assuming we don't just decide to jack in the whole thing as these sorts of outcomes become more obvious to voters.

[NUKe]

When new Zealand removed farming subsidies. Some farms went under, but others turned to more profitable crops. We probably should look to removing the subsidies. The British climate has such a short growing season, it is difficult to compete on many crops on price. The EU has artificially controlled farming, so it will hurt for a while, but Why do we need to subsidize farming at all ?

[roubaixtuesday]

Why do we need to subsidize farming at all

All the most beautiful countryside in England at least would be transformed without subsidy. You might think that a good thing but I wouldn't agree personally.

That's not at all to say the system is perfect as-is.

[NUKe]

Why do we need to subsidize farming at all

All the most beautiful countryside in England at least would be transformed without subsidy. You might think that a good thing but I wouldn't agree personally.

That's not at all to say the system is perfect as-is.

So we are paying for the view, Not to feed people ?

I am not against subsidising nature and management of the countryside, but we currently pay large subsidies to manage Grouse Shoots which destroy water retention on uplands. We look after Arab horse studs and we don't eat horse. We seem to pay farmer to run ever bigger range rovers yet employ Slave labour.


Yes the countryside would change, but Britain is not a museum and nothing about most of the British countryside is natural.

Although I am a self confessed remainer, I think when Brexit happens the farmers should be at the back of the queue not the front. Round here it was the largest land owners that wanted out, paying people to put up Brexit slogans out of his own pocket, well let him make farming work, I don't want to pay for it. Farmer in general were pro Brexit, or so it seemed here in Anglia, if the number of Brexit and leave campaign signs went up in fields are anything to go by.

Possibly one area to suffer would be Hill sheep farming and whilst I have sympathy for farmers who struggle to survive with sheep flocks perhaps the lack of subsidy will see diversification.



My point was/is that farming will change without subsidy it wont disappear.

[Ben@Forest]

When new Zealand removed farming subsidies. Some farms went under, but others turned to more profitable crops. We probably should look to removing the subsidies. The British climate has such a short growing season, it is difficult to compete on many crops on price. The EU has artificially controlled farming, so it will hurt for a while, but Why do we need to subsidize farming at all ?

NZ could remove farming subsidies because it is over 2,000 miles from the nearest importing nation of any size (Australia). And that's just the nearest bit of Australia, Perth is nearer 3,500 miles away. If, in a Brexit future, we had no farming subsidies then we'd have to be highly protectionist to stop cheaper yogurt, cheese, milk and meat coming from our neighbour (Ireland) and other EU countries as little as 30 miles away.

[Ben@Forest]

Round here it was the largest land owners that wanted out, paying people to put up Brexit slogans out of his own pocket, well let him make farming work, I don't want to pay for it. Farmer in general were pro Brexit, or so it seemed here in Anglia, if the number of Brexit and leave campaign signs went up in fields are anything to go by.

The Common Agricultural Policy is a mess and has been for years. Do you not think most farmers (about 58% voted out so not that much more than the national vote of 52%) have dealt with the sharp end of the EU for years and just think that ANY other system could be better?

[landsurfer]

The British climate has such a short growing season,

It doesn't .... it has a 12 month growing season .......

[531colin]

Sign seen in Yorkshire at the time of the referendum......
"BRITISH FARMERS...... SUBSIDISING THE COMPETITION IN EUROPE"
Obama was very keen on GB staying in the EU.
He wanted posh Dave to persuade the EU to buy the USA's overproduction of grain, which was a good scheme except that nobody ever took any notice of posh Dave, and cheap grain isn't really cheap if you have to subsidise the French farmers even more.
.....5 lines of text.....i wonder how many people that will upset?

[NUKe]

Firstly New Zealand is a net exporter. Was and always has been. We onthe other hand have been a net importer since the 70's. THE EU wastes money supporting uneconomic farming practices. So what if Ireland supply us with subsidised dairy after brexit, we get cheap food and our farmers could look at better value crops. I still don't get why farmers need subsidising, and certainly not grouse shoots.we don't protect our other industries to this degree so why food?

[Psamathe]

...I still don't get why farmers need subsidising, and certainly not grouse shoots.we don't protect our other industries to this degree so why food?

It's something I wonder about and am unsure of the indirect impacts of such subsidies and it seems quite complex. I can see benefits where farmers are paid to farm in a wildlife friendly manner. I can see that if those subsidies keep food prices lower, were we to remove those subsidies and see a food price rise then the more vulnerable and those on lower incomes would be hardest hit. I can see how farming subsidies skew the world food markets (hindering food imports from some countries) - but then I also think we need to try and reduce "food miles" so local production has benefits over flying produce in from the other side of the planet.

As you say, some farmers do quite well out of subsidies (or at least their land owners do) but there could be many hidden impacts to removing those subsidies that I can't predict - hence my being unsure.

Ian

[Paulatic]

Firstly New Zealand is a net exporter. Was and always has been. We onthe other hand have been a net importer since the 70's. THE EU wastes money supporting uneconomic farming practices. So what if Ireland supply us with subsidised dairy after brexit, we get cheap food and our farmers could look at better value crops. I still don't get why farmers need subsidising, and certainly not grouse shoots.we don't protect our other industries to this degree so why food?

Really?

UK farmers receive between £2.4bn and £3bn in subsidies from the EU each year, while the average income of a farmer was just over £20,000 in 2014.

I believe Network Rail received £3.9bn

[kwackers]

Europe has a lot of small farmers, they're subsidised to prevent them going under when having to compete with the large farming 'corps'.
Large scale farms may be efficient but some of their farming practises are questionable at the least.

It's one of the things I like about the EU, it at least makes some attempt to support small scale producers and thus some of the remaining culture of countries rather than allowing large scale industrialisation to destroy everything in it's path.
Sure you can find exceptions to the rule - but it's a complex system and someone will always find ways to milk it, you've just got to be on the ball and try and stop them.

[Ben@Forest]

It's something I wonder about and am unsure of the indirect impacts of such subsidies and it seems quite complex. I can see benefits where farmers are paid to farm in a wildlife friendly manner. I can see that if those subsidies keep food prices lower, were we to remove those subsidies and see a food price rise then the more vulnerable and those on lower incomes would be hardest hit. I can see how farming subsidies skew the world food markets (hindering food imports from some countries) - but then I also think we need to try and reduce "food miles" so local production has benefits over flying produce in from the other side of the planet.

As you say, some farmers do quite well out of subsidies (or at least their land owners do) but there could be many hidden impacts to removing those subsidies that I can't predict - hence my being unsure.

I think that pretty well hit the nail on the head. If there's no payments for, for instance, hedge management, (whether you call that a subsidy or not) then farmers will have every right to claim hedges lessen their cropped area or make ergonomic working more difficult. So they should be allowed to remove the hedge. Hedgerow Regulations will go out the window and there will be a knock-on effect on everything from small mammals to rare lichens.

Like it or not farmers are custodians of much of the landscape and have to carry out tasks that we see as intrinsic to landscape quality, wildlife value or public benefits. These are tasks most other industries do not have to consider.

[tanglewood]

Farming is a tiny industry now, about the same as hairdressing. If other countries want to subsidise their food production and sell it to us then great - cheaper food for us and we get some land back from under the plough. It should reduce land prices so we can have more room for houses, parks, horses, trails, camping, and just free space. Maybe we can import food from Africa too and do their economies some favours, instead of penalising the poorest farmers of all.


I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my wobbly bog brush using hovercraft full of eels