What is your soln to the Southern Rail dispute?

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mercalia
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What is your soln to the Southern Rail dispute?

Postby mercalia » 13 Jan 2017, 4:05pm

I would secretly try and find drivers etc from elsewhere then sack all the southern staff? its all gone too far?

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661-Pete
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Re: What is your soln to the Southern Rail dispute?

Postby 661-Pete » 13 Jan 2017, 4:18pm

You are Failing Grayling AICMFP..... :twisted:
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pete75
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Re: What is your soln to the Southern Rail dispute?

Postby pete75 » 13 Jan 2017, 4:35pm

If they're still going to have on train staff as they say why change anything - what's the point?
Still as someone said it's better for for Southern Rail passengers on strike days. At least then they don't have the torture of hoping a train will come.

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Mick F
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Re: What is your soln to the Southern Rail dispute?

Postby Mick F » 13 Jan 2017, 8:28pm

Never been on Southern Rail, and no wish to either.
From what I understand, the train staff have a valid point.

SR are very different to anywhere else on the network. There are hundreds of thousands of people getting on and off thousands of trains every single day. Far too much for a train driver alone to cope with, as well as driving and stopping. Having platform staff is besides the point.
More and more on-board train staff is required, not less and less.

If I was able to advise and suggest, the whole staff should resign.
Don't strike ............... resign on mass.
Mick F. Cornwall

Psamathe
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Re: What is your soln to the Southern Rail dispute?

Postby Psamathe » 13 Jan 2017, 8:36pm

My solution: cycle in
My solution: Work outside of London (and enjoy cleaner air as well)
My solution: Employ highly paid people who are experts at resolving such issues (oh we already have a Failing Grayling in that position)

etc.

Ian

Vitara
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Re: What is your soln to the Southern Rail dispute?

Postby Vitara » 13 Jan 2017, 9:05pm

There probably isn't a solution at present, both sides are sticky firmly to their position, and while Southern Rail Management say they are happy for talks such talks are meaningless as they clearly have not intention of compromising in any meaningful way.

An added problem is that, for reasons that are unclear to me, the dispute is being very poorly investigated and reported by the media. The Southern Rail franchise is unique & the bottom line is that the Government are footing the cost of the strike so the dispute is actually between unions and the Government.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/news/the-news-explained/lbcs-long-read-the-southern-rail-debacle/

I suspect Southern Rail/Chris Grayling will eventually get their way. Then over time an increasing number of trains will be driver only or driver and a low paid member of cabin staff trained only in operating the coffee trolley. This will work just fine on many hundreds of journeys until such times there is an incident, serious passenger illness, fire, assault, etc. at which time it will perhaps become evident that a driver along cannot deal with such incidents.

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661-Pete
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Re: What is your soln to the Southern Rail dispute?

Postby 661-Pete » 13 Jan 2017, 9:55pm

Mick F wrote:Never been on Southern Rail, and no wish to either.
From what I understand, the train staff have a valid point.

SR are very different to anywhere else on the network
Not really true. In my perception most trains in the UK are pretty much clones of one another. I have seen trains in other parts of the country get very busy, too. OK maybe things are different in Cornwall, away from the industrial heartbeat...

Southern are currently acting as the 'stalking horse' here - and the other companies are watching with eagle eyes. They want to see if SR's experiment with OMO trains is a success, then they'll jump on the same bandwagon. Expect more aggro....

But.... [devil's advocate time]

It so happens that a few weeks ago I made several trips on a branch line elsewhere in the UK (not the southeast - but I won't be any more specific). On this line, the trains did have a guard, and the guard was indeed responsible for opening and closing the doors. Problem was, as I saw it, the guard was also tasked with selling tickets to passengers who'd boarded without one. So we had the situation where the guard was busy selling a ticket as the train drew into a station. Then he had to hurriedly complete the transaction and rush to the door bay, so he could operate the master switch allowing the doors to be opened. Not a safety issue, true, but a bit annoying to passengers waiting to get off.

There were no problems when it came to closing the doors. It was just the opening that got held up.

There must be a better way of doing this. Keep the guard by all means: he/she performs an invaluable function. But surely their tasks can be re-drawn without compromising safety?

Anyway, whatever, the strikes go on - and on - and on - and on - down here in leafy Sussex. At least both Mrs P and I are retired, and hence not commuters. But we sympathise with the afflicted. And we discussing it on the forum isn't going to change anything... :(
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

landsurfer
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Re: What is your soln to the Southern Rail dispute?

Postby landsurfer » 13 Jan 2017, 10:18pm

The new London underground trains don't even have a driver .... Do not be fooled the union man sitting at the front, he is not a driver ... He is a massivly overpaid watcher ....DLR has never had drivers ... Guards are essential train managers ... But they don't need to close the doors ....
And that's what its all about, no redundancies, modern trains, and an important role for the guards
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Boyd
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Re: What is your soln to the Southern Rail dispute?

Postby Boyd » 14 Jan 2017, 12:57am

Mick F wrote:
If I was able to advise and suggest, the whole staff should resign.
Don't strike ............... resign on mass.

They have mortgages and children to feed.

Vitara
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Re: What is your soln to the Southern Rail dispute?

Postby Vitara » 14 Jan 2017, 1:51am

landsurfer wrote:The new London underground trains don't even have a driver .... Do not be fooled the union man sitting at the front, he is not a driver ... He is a massivly overpaid watcher ....DLR has never had drivers ... Guards are essential train managers ... But they don't need to close the doors ....
And that's what its all about, no redundancies, modern trains, and an important role for the guards


I appreciate what you're saying about DLR, but can you really compare an inner city shuttle train with stops just minutes apart with commuter trains running between towns many miles apart?

It's also important to listen carefully to what SR managers say and don't say when interviewed. On the recent TV debate when pressed to state there would be "gaurd" on every train the response was nearly every train. They may not be making anyone redundant, but if they have trains which can run without guards they will.

As has been said SR are the Government's stalking horde on this one.

Rail travel is generally fairly safe so I guess the risks of not having a guard on board are low, but of course things can and at some point will go wrong.

My comparison would be Air Travel rather than DLR. Put in vending machines for in flight food and drink service and you could have pilot only operated planes?

brynpoeth
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Re: What is your soln to the Southern Rail dispute?

Postby brynpoeth » 14 Jan 2017, 7:03am

Work where you live, live where you work.

Work at home and go to London once a week Surnames A-D on Mondays..

Then the services could be reduced.
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Cunobelin
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Re: What is your soln to the Southern Rail dispute?

Postby Cunobelin » 14 Jan 2017, 8:35am

This is simply symptomatic of the whole rail network and what they re allowed to get away with, combined with a politically motivated action by the unions to "bring down" the Government

Take it outside the local arena and tackle the issues on national basis

Bonefishblues
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Re: What is your soln to the Southern Rail dispute?

Postby Bonefishblues » 14 Jan 2017, 8:52am

landsurfer wrote:The new London underground trains don't even have a driver .... Do not be fooled the union man sitting at the front, he is not a driver ... He is a massivly overpaid watcher ....DLR has never had drivers ... Guards are essential train managers ... But they don't need to close the doors ....
And that's what its all about, no redundancies, modern trains, and an important role for the guards

That's actually a very fair parallel. Regular Underground trains manage just fine with only a driver and look at their volumes. I'm not compelled by the Union's case tbh.

pete75
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Re: What is your soln to the Southern Rail dispute?

Postby pete75 » 14 Jan 2017, 9:01am

Cunobelin wrote:This is simply symptomatic of the whole rail network and what they re allowed to get away with, combined with a politically motivated action by the unions to "bring down" the Government

Take it outside the local arena and tackle the issues on national basis

Or more likely politically motivated action by the government to "bring down" the unions. What chance have the rail unions to bring down the government with strikes on a small and relatively insignificant part of the network. It's not as if it's on the East or West Coast mainlines.

SpannerGeek
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Re: What is your soln to the Southern Rail dispute?

Postby SpannerGeek » 14 Jan 2017, 9:11am

The issue is quite straightforward: (though largely misunderstood by the public) it's train guards vs either ticket collectors or more likely no on train staff at all.

Guards do 18 months training in all aspects of train safety and health and safety, as well as recusitation techniques and medical emergency. These are the people who get you safely off the train when there's a fire in carriage A, or use the defibrillator when you've had a heart attack. They also look after your daughter when shes the recipient of unwanted attention from yobs.

It's specialist, invaluable training and private train operators don't want to pay for it and would rather do away with it. The unions are rightly incensed by this.

Hence the completely justified strike action.