Libraries, public, decline of: DDC 020.336

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Mick F
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Re: Public libraries, decline of

Postby Mick F » 5 Feb 2017, 11:11am

Nationally, we spend too much money on things, and not enough on other things.
Libraries for one.

Plus .............
Health centres and hospitals
Police
Street cleaning
Road repairs
Railways

The list is endless.
Trident?
I've always been against it even though I spent 27years in the RN.

Until the dosh gets spent on PEOPLE, no-one will be happy.

My point about libraries, is that there's hardly enough money for people. We used to have a street cleaner in the village, then he became a street cleaner for the whole parish, then his job went completely.
I'd rather them close our local libraries and fund a street cleaner.

............. or get rid of Trident, and build a few new hospitals and have all the libraries properly funded.
Mick F. Cornwall

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meic
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Re: Public libraries, decline of

Postby meic » 5 Feb 2017, 11:13am

It is probably pretty fairminded to cut back on services in response to hard times which are only used by a minority of people rather than used by the majority.
I am all for slashing support for Opera and dog grooming classes.

However as Universal Credit is rolled out the poorest people will need internet access in order to get their benefits. Public Libraries are the place that they are told to use if they dont have personal internet access.

Cutting back on services which are needed by a minority rather than just used because they are a pleasant perk is a different thing and possibly that need hasnt been made obvious. Generally the media is more obsessed with the trivial inequalities experienced by the top 2% than the genuine hardships of the bottom 2%. .
Yma o Hyd

reohn2
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Re: Public libraries, decline of

Postby reohn2 » 5 Feb 2017, 11:20am

Mick F wrote:My point about libraries, is that there's hardly enough money for people.

And spending on a decent library service isn't investing in people?

We used to have a street cleaner in the village, then he became a street cleaner for the whole parish, then his job went completely.
I'd rather them close our local libraries and fund a street cleaner.

I thought you'd be in favour of cleaning your own bit of the street.......

............. or get rid of Trident, and build a few new hospitals and have all the libraries properly funded.

Well we agree on something.
We're funding ultimate mass destruction capabilities,rather than mass learning,education and well being capabilities,it was ever thus......
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reohn2
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Re: Public libraries, decline of

Postby reohn2 » 5 Feb 2017, 11:23am

meic wrote:It is probably pretty fairminded to cut back on services in response to hard times which are only used by a minority of people rather than used by the majority.
I am all for slashing support for Opera and dog grooming classes.

However as Universal Credit is rolled out the poorest people will need internet access in order to get their benefits. Public Libraries are the place that they are told to use if they dont have personal internet access.

Cutting back on services which are needed by a minority rather than just used because they are a pleasant perk is a different thing and possibly that need hasnt been made obvious. Generally the media is more obsessed with the trivial inequalities experienced by the top 2% than the genuine hardships of the bottom 2%. .

Oh so very +100000000000
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Libraries, public, decline of:

Postby thirdcrank » 5 Feb 2017, 11:38am

The correct thread title for indexing should surely be "Libraries, public, decline of:" :wink:

Many of the services traditionally provided by public - as in "local authority" - libraries have been made virtually :oops: redundant by IT. Even local authority reference libraries have lost much of their purpose for that reason. I do hope that as the axe repeatedly falls, somebody is alert to the importance of local archives, which by their nature aren't being maintained elsewhere. I'm including new material being identified as important and recorded. Also, transferring material to digital form can be costly but it makes it much more readily and widely available, while protecting the physical condition of fragile material, or freeing storage space if the medium is immaterial.

It's an area where its easy to count the cost but not quite so easy to recognise the value.
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Other posts while I was labouring away.

Things like access to benefits are currently made worse for everybody by the fiasco in organisations like the Benefits Agency. I speak with recent experience. Specifically on the subject of doing things online, unless things have changed very recently, you can ring them up and during the interminable wait, between being repeatedly reminded that calls will be recorded, there are exhortations to visit the website even though what you want to do cannot be achieved online.

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al_yrpal
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Re: Public libraries, decline of

Postby al_yrpal » 5 Feb 2017, 2:17pm

Volunteers in Libraries are great, no they dont know as much as the Librarian does about libraries but what they lack in knowlege they make up for with committment. Many are ex teachers and professionals with all sorts of knowlege and life experience much more varied than a lifelong librarian. I am very please to live in such a caring and involved village society, the volunteers in the library are just the tip of the iceberg around here. Many retired people here seem to be involved in something beneficial to others other than just going up the pub. Getting youngsters keen on reading and the arts at a young age is a key area of education. The UK punches well above its weight in the Arts, good for an interesting life and good for export earnings. Libraries are cultural hubs and should be well funded from public taxes and appreciated.

Al
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661-Pete
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Re: Libraries, public, decline of:

Postby 661-Pete » 5 Feb 2017, 3:28pm

thirdcrank wrote:The correct thread title for indexing should surely be "Libraries, public, decline of:" :wink:
Well spotted.
It's astounding to discover how many book titles begin with "The...". No wonder the less-experienced librarians used to be flummoxed.
Pete

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pete75
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Re: Public libraries, decline of

Postby pete75 » 5 Feb 2017, 3:34pm

blackbike wrote: They insist that their employees get excellent terms and conditions of employment, including extra pay for evening and weekend work, even if that means making many of their staff redundant so that those who remain stay on those excellent terms. They'd rather close libraries rather than looking at ways to reduce per capita employee costs, something that most employers have to do all the time in order to stay in business.


I think the staff unions are strong enough to fight major reductions in terms and conditions. There is nothing wrong with any employing organisation providing decent terms and conditions for it's staff particularly in the way of pay and pensions. As well as Paying for the public sector it's the taxpayer that subsidises low wages paid by business through the benefits and tax credit system. It's the taxpayer that picks up the tab when employers don't provide a decent workplace pension.

Anyhow from you what you've said on here you either currently work in the public sector or previously worked in it. Did you advocate your own terms and conditions should be worsened?

pete75
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Re: Libraries, public, decline of:

Postby pete75 » 5 Feb 2017, 3:38pm

thirdcrank wrote:The correct thread title for indexing should surely be "Libraries, public, decline of:" :wink:


020.336 "Libraries, public, decline of:" :wink:

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Mick F
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Re: Public libraries, decline of

Postby Mick F » 5 Feb 2017, 5:49pm

I'd put (insert word), public, decline of.

Libraries
Toilets
Houses
Amenities
Parks
Street cleaning
............. to name a few off the top of my head.

My point is, that libraries can be Good Things, and no-doubt actually are in places.
Round here, they aren't used a great deal, and they could be closed and the money saved could be better spent.

Without getting into an EU debate, some of us receive Objective One funding.
Why is that?
Could it be that areas in UK are quite different to other areas?
Could it be that some areas have different issues and priorities regarding pubic facilities?
Mick F. Cornwall

brynpoeth
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Re: Public libraries, decline of

Postby brynpoeth » 5 Feb 2017, 6:01pm

Mick F wrote:Personally, I think that they should close them all and the councils could spend more money on other stuff. Stuff that the people use, rather than a small minority.
It is probably 40years or more since I went into a library.

However, I do understand that they serve a purpose, even if I have no use for them.


For a while I earned so much money that nearly half of it was deducted. I was really pleased to be paying a lot for health care without needing to use it. I think there is such a thing as society, I am glad to pay for swimming baths that I do not use, the swimmers pay for cycle ways, and we all pay for children to be looked after :P
Cycling - of course, but it is far better on a Gillott..alternative facts welcome

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jan19
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Re: Public libraries, decline of

Postby jan19 » 5 Feb 2017, 10:31pm

Councils have failed to adapt to modern times because they have no need to do so. They insist that their employees get excellent terms and conditions of employment, including extra pay for evening and weekend work, even if that means making many of their staff redundant so that those who remain stay on those excellent terms. They'd rather close libraries rather than looking at ways to reduce per capita employee costs, something that most have to do all the time in order to stay in business.
Top


Oh dear Blackbike, your hatred of public servants coming before facts again. I joined my local Council more than 30 years ago. At that time - 1979 - the standard working hours were 8am until 10 pm. They are still the same now. You don't get overtime unless you begin before 8 or work after 10. I haven't ever claimed overtime. Not once, in all that time. I've put in a few 9.30pm's, and I normally get in by 8am, but that suits my cycling into work.

My council have a stated (and applied) policy about not making staff redundant. They're far too mean to pay the money out. In case you're wondering, my council is absolutely dyed blue Tory. They don't give anything to their employees the law doesn't force them to. If you paid any attention to staffing levels and abilities (which you obviously haven't) you'd see most local councils have reduced their spending on library staff (employing far more non-qualified staff, therefore reducing the level of expertise you can expect when going into your local library) . Those "staff" you observe chatting are no more likely to have any sort of library qualification than I am to have to repair your plumbing.


Saturday working is built into the standard contact. When I worked in the front line, I worked two out of three Saturdays- it worked for us because hubby also works alternate Saturdays (yep, in that other awful public service the NHS), and my Mum was happy to look after my girls. I didn't get paid any more for it - it was just part of my working week. But I got Thursday off, so that was one day more with my girls, and one day's less expense paid for childcare. Plus Mum enjoyed her Saturdays with her grandchildren. My service also includes Sunday working, although only one of our libraries currently opens on Sunday. But if they chose to open another library on a Sunday, any staff working that day wouldn't get a penny more.

But why pay any attention to someone who actually works in local government and knows what's she's talking about in favour of someone who just clearly has an axe to grind?

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Re: Public libraries, decline of

Postby landsurfer » 5 Feb 2017, 10:38pm

Mick F wrote:Personally, I think that they should close them all and the councils could spend more money on other stuff. Stuff that the people use, rather than a small minority.
It is probably 40years or more since I went into a library.

However, I do understand that they serve a purpose, even if I have no use for them.


I'm sure the wonderful Cornwall unified council could close lots of things we both don't use, Women's Refuges, Drug Rehab centres and support services, Lunch clubs for the lonely and elderly, Shed clubs for men alone .... Be careful what you wish for ... What you don't use now ......???? :)
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reohn2
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Re: Public libraries, decline of

Postby reohn2 » 5 Feb 2017, 10:59pm

jan19 wrote:But why pay any attention to someone who actually works in local government and knows what's she's talking about in favour of someone who just clearly has an axe to grind?


And knows sweet FA about working in a Library.
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landsurfer
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Re: Public libraries, decline of

Postby landsurfer » 5 Feb 2017, 11:18pm

jan19 wrote:"When I worked in the front line,"

But why pay any attention to someone who actually works in local government and knows what's she's talking about in favour of someone who just clearly has an axe to grind?


The front line??
Mine clearance, combat medicine .... what front line are you talking rubbish about ..... front line .... Jesus wept !!!
You worked for the council ... where exactly .......Londonderry, Stanley, Damascus !!!! Allepo !!
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