Julian Assange? Who's that?

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thirdcrank
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Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby thirdcrank » 6 Feb 2017, 11:00am

I can't help feeling that this is rather sad. He's been locked away in his own self-inflicted oubliette for so long that everybody seems to have forgotten him.

There was an item on the BBC website this morning which has already disappeared from view, presumably because other stuff was attracting more clicks.

He reportedly lives in a small room with a bed, sun lamp, computer, shower, treadmill and cooking facilities.


More a little mouse than a budgie with a mirror tweeting "Who's a pretty boy, then?" :lol:

AFAIK, his main non-negotiable demand - that Bradley Manning (as was) should be released - is about to happen (I avoid saying "is about to be met.") Also AFAIK, the American authorities have dismissed suggestions that they are even remotely interested in him.

Assuming the normal 50% remission, he's already served the equivalent of a nine years sentence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38874404

Getting media attention seems to be harder than it used to be, but a cold, wet February morning has never been the best time to attract a sympathetic crowd.

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661-Pete
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby 661-Pete » 6 Feb 2017, 11:12am

Well, given that he's reputedly big buddies with the Tango Monster, he should presumably have no qualms about being onward-deported across the pond - not anymore.

This creep has never been wrongfully 'imprisoned' by the Brits or anyone else. He has wilfully incarcerated himself in some god-forsaken embassy. He is facing serious charges including rape, in Sweden. If he comes out he will simply be extradited to face those charges. And if convicted in Sweden, he will pay the due penalty. That's how justice works - in civilised countries.
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meic
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby meic » 6 Feb 2017, 11:25am

Well if you were KellyAnne Conway you would be being vilified for inventing fake charges of rape and be being spoofed about the rapes that never happened, I will however give you the benefit of the doubt and say it is more likely just a muddle or slip of the finger.

Assange has never been charged with rape, just wanted for questioning.
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661-Pete
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby 661-Pete » 6 Feb 2017, 11:39am

I didn't say he had been charged. I said he was facing charges. Perhaps, to be pedantic, I should have worded it, "facing possible charges". If he is extradited, it is quite possible he will then be formally charged. That's down to the Swedish equivalent of the CPS, I would imagine.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 6 Feb 2017, 11:53am

Hi,
meic wrote:Well if you were KellyAnne Conway you would be being vilified for inventing fake charges of rape and be being spoofed about the rapes that never happened, I will however give you the benefit of the doubt and say it is more likely just a muddle or slip of the finger.

Assange has never been charged with rape, just wanted for questioning.

+1
Which could be done here, its obvious where he will end up if he is forced back to Sweden.
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kwackers
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby kwackers » 6 Feb 2017, 11:57am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Which could be done here, its obvious where he will end up if he is forced back to Sweden.

What's it got to do with us? Unless the high court ruling was overturned then legally we have to extradite him.

thirdcrank
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby thirdcrank » 6 Feb 2017, 11:58am

meic wrote: ... Assange has never been charged with rape, just wanted for questioning.


FWIW, I think it's important to be careful when comparing the system in England and Wales with other jurisdictions because what we might call the flow-chart between the commission of an offence and conviction can be quite different. Even in our system "charged" can refer to the procedure at the police station counter to get somebody in police custody before a court or to the procedure at court immediately before an accused is invited to enter a plea. Elsewhere, the judiciary sometimes have an earlier role in determining the conduct of an investigation, even to the extent of being more like detectives than judges or magistrates.

IMO, the point here is that he's officially a suspect and by availing himself of what we might call sanctuary he's avoided the next stages in both the English and Swedish legal systems. IIRC, he was on court bail when he entered the embassy and by failing to surrender to bail, he may well have committed an offence here.

Speaking as a total layman, I rather fancy that the Swedish legal system will be a fair one: it's not as though he's wanted by some vicious totalitarian regime. AFAIK, they are stronger than we are on offences against women, but we are getting there.

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meic
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby meic » 6 Feb 2017, 12:09pm

it's not as though he's wanted by some vicious totalitarian regime.

That is a very disputable statement.

He is wanted by a vicious powerful regime that is for sure.
Also he was questioned and released with no charges to answer.
Then he SERIOUSLY pissed off the USA. They asked all other countries to get him.
Then the Swedish case was re-opened at that point.

He would certainly qualify as a refugee if the USA was replaced by any other country outside of the "Free West". So not surprisingly a country outside of the "Free West" can easily recognise his refugee status.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby thirdcrank » 6 Feb 2017, 12:18pm

As I've said higher up, time has slipped by so I may have forgotten something or missed it completely.

Can you link to your sources for this bit?

They asked all other countries to get him.


If it's in the links within my BBC link, I've obviously overlooked them, but I am looking for reasonably reliable third party sources, rather than self-serving assertions.

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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby kwackers » 6 Feb 2017, 12:24pm

meic wrote:Also he was questioned and released with no charges to answer.

So was the Yorkshire ripper - several times. No sure that statement means much.

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meic
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby meic » 6 Feb 2017, 12:34pm

thirdcrank wrote:As I've said higher up, time has slipped by so I may have forgotten something or missed it completely.

Can you link to your sources for this bit?

They asked all other countries to get him.


If it's in the links within my BBC link, I've obviously overlooked them, but I am looking for reasonably reliable third party sources, rather than self-serving assertions.


Well, I suppose that depends who you believe is a reliable source, Wikileaks or the USA administration.
I should point out that the charges which Assange faces in the USA are espionage and leaking secrets not deformation of character! Even they dont claim the wikileaks are false.

The "all other countries to get him" was part of the package leaked by Sowden, also facing charges of "communicating confidential information" not deformation of the good name of the USA.
https://theintercept.com/2014/02/18/sno ... upporters/
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meic
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby meic » 6 Feb 2017, 12:43pm

kwackers wrote:
meic wrote:Also he was questioned and released with no charges to answer.

So was the Yorkshire ripper - several times. No sure that statement means much.


Yes but the Yorkshire Ripper was called back in because new evidence arrived (he was caught at it), not because he had pissed of the USA government in the intervening period.
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby kwackers » 6 Feb 2017, 12:47pm

meic wrote:Yes but the Yorkshire Ripper was called back in because new evidence arrived (he was caught at it), not because he had pissed of the USA government in the intervening period.

Suppose Pete did pee off the U.S government. What then? Claim he was being victimised?
As I said, I think it's a pointless argument. Folk get interviewed and released all the time, doesn't mean they're innocent. For all I know Assange is just trying to game the system and avoid being branded a rapist.

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meic
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby meic » 6 Feb 2017, 12:56pm

In criminal law you work to beyond reasonable doubt and innocent until proven guilty. In civil courts you use "balance of probabilities".

From here he walks on either criteria.

If the allegations were freestanding it might be different but considering all the surrounding circumstances, it is likely that if he goes to Sweden, next step will be the USA.
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661-Pete
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby 661-Pete » 6 Feb 2017, 12:59pm

meic wrote:Yes but the Yorkshire Ripper was called back in because new evidence arrived (he was caught at it), not because he had pissed of the USA government in the intervening period.

Sutcliffe was not 'caught at it'. He was arrested for a road traffic offence. It so happened that he was accompanied by a <i>[derogatory word removed]</i> at the time - not in itself an offence, but aroused police suspicions, which were further awakened because he matched the description of the assailant. So he was then questioned about the ripper cases and eventually confessed.

Of course I am not implying that Assange is a serial killer! But he is under suspicion of serious crimes. Isn't that enough?
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).