Julian Assange? Who's that?

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georgew
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby georgew » 14 Apr 2019, 2:19pm

pete75 wrote:Why all this fuss and news reporting about a relatively insignificant individual. He's accused of rape in Sweden. This, to my mind, is a far more serious crime than embarrassing the US Government or armed forces so to Sweden he should be sent.



A couple of points. Assange is hardly insignificant given his role in disclosing that the US and the UK's intelligence services illegally eavesdropped on their citizens and that the US committed war crimes. Again, while Assange was never charged with rape by the Swedish authorities (and the case has been dropped meanwhile), he felt at significant risk as he suspected that Sweden would extradite him to the US...and who would blame him given America's record on illegal extraditions.

Looking at what has happened to other individuals who have "embarrassed" the US, it's little wonder he might be a little apprehensive.

pete75
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby pete75 » 14 Apr 2019, 3:56pm

georgew wrote:
pete75 wrote:Why all this fuss and news reporting about a relatively insignificant individual. He's accused of rape in Sweden. This, to my mind, is a far more serious crime than embarrassing the US Government or armed forces so to Sweden he should be sent.



A couple of points. Assange is hardly insignificant given his role in disclosing that the US and the UK's intelligence services illegally eavesdropped on their citizens and that the US committed war crimes. Again, while Assange was never charged with rape by the Swedish authorities (and the case has been dropped meanwhile), he felt at significant risk as he suspected that Sweden would extradite him to the US...and who would blame him given America's record on illegal extraditions.

Looking at what has happened to other individuals who have "embarrassed" the US, it's little wonder he might be a little apprehensive.


The Swedes are considering reopening the case. I'd have thought there's less chance of being extradited to the US from Sweden than from here. The UK is America's poodle Sweden isn't.

reohn2
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby reohn2 » 19 Apr 2019, 12:22pm

Interesting for people who didn't follow the Assange case:- https://youtu.be/LeJ3DZXGs24
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Psamathe
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby Psamathe » 19 Apr 2019, 2:51pm

A bit related to Assange; I think one of the challenges facing Wikileaks (and similar organisations) is how they avoid becoming puppets of those they wish to expose. e.g. they in effect became the publisher and publicity for a significant part of the Russian interference in the US elections, in effect they were played by the Russian Government into helping Trump get elected (at least that is how it appears to me). I'm disappointed that they could not see what was going on and to e.g. delay release ("reviewing documents") to a time when it would not be playing part of an election campaign. To me, Wikileaks showed lack of thought, lack of judgement, blindly leaping without thinking anything through. Does anybody think the Trump Campaign does not have similar incriminating e-mails hidden away?

Ian

thirdcrank
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby thirdcrank » 1 May 2019, 7:29pm

Just for the record, he's now been sentenced to 50 weeks which is nigh on the max available for this offence. AFAIK, the time in custody since his arrest will count towards that, but it's still something like five months to serve and in the circumstances, it's hard to envisage a transfer to an open prison. The public interest in this now seems slight.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48118908

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661-Pete
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby 661-Pete » 1 May 2019, 8:59pm

Others may disagree, but I think justice has been served. We can do without an Assange muddying the waters in our midst. Can he now be extradited after serving his term? To Sweden? Or to USA?
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Psamathe
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby Psamathe » 1 May 2019, 9:38pm

How much did the Police presence at the Ecuadorian Embassy cost UK taxpayers?

Ian

thirdcrank
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby thirdcrank » 1 May 2019, 9:41pm

Psamathe wrote:How much did the Police presence at the Ecuadorian Embassy cost UK taxpayers?

Ian


Read the link

His continued residence at the embassy and bringing him to justice had cost taxpayers £16m, (the judge) added.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby Tangled Metal » 1 May 2019, 9:50pm

Totally agree. Long sentence then deportation if not extradition.

As for extradition does it really matter whether it's Sweden or USA? Both countries have extradition agreements with the UK. Both countries have serious offences to try. Both countries have offences with a UK equivalent so extradition is allowable I believe.

The only possible reason for not extradition to USA IMHO is because Sweden had the first interest in him, USA is my about trying an offence but about revenge or you don't believe the USA won't change the offence he's being tried for and he suddenly gets tried for a capitol offence resulting in death penalty. I personally think Sweden should get first options on trying him. I don't care if trump and other officials are about revenge because America has a very developed legal system that should and I would expect require any vindictive prosecution to actually prove their case. The idea they'll change offences to one giving a death sentence is a bit unlikely. I reckon it will change the extradition relationship between our countries if they broke an agreement over any extradition case wrt the death penalty. Their prosecutors will not want that.

Psamathe
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby Psamathe » 1 May 2019, 9:54pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Totally agree. Long sentence then deportation if not extradition.

As for extradition does it really matter whether it's Sweden or USA? Both countries have extradition agreements with the UK. Both countries have serious offences to try. Both countries have offences with a UK equivalent so extradition is allowable I believe.

The only possible reason for not extradition to USA IMHO is because Sweden had the first interest in him, USA is my about trying an offence but about revenge or you don't believe the USA won't change the offence he's being tried for and he suddenly gets tried for a capitol offence resulting in death penalty......

I understood that extradition procedures do not allow that to happen. Extradition paperwork has to identify the charges so they can’t extradite on an easy charge and suddenly once they’ve got him add more.

Ian

Tangled Metal
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby Tangled Metal » 1 May 2019, 10:35pm

One less thing to worry about for him then.

Let him go! Let America or Sweden have him but don't waste any more money on him. Kick him out. Make him someone else's problem. He's an aussie right? Deport him back there, it's not a country he'll be at risk of torture in.

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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 2 May 2019, 9:13am

Sweden haven't, yet, asked for him. Let the US have him, he shouldn't get any preferential treatment. If the yanks don't want him eject him back to his home country.

He's here, trying to play our system, at our expense, for his own ends, and he's failed. His choice alone to come here and try that, the consequences of that choice are his to bear.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby thirdcrank » 2 May 2019, 6:39pm

The extradition application by the USA had an initial court hearing today. It's been adjourned for a month. It may drag on.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48134901

thirdcrank
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby thirdcrank » 13 May 2019, 10:45am

It's reported that the Swedish authorities have decided to re-open their investigation. I assumes that this is just their usual procedures in operation, in what is an unusual case. Either that, or it's part of an ominous cloak-and-dagger special rendition plot to get him out of this country and on his way to the US.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48253343

Tangled Metal
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Re: Julian Assange? Who's that?

Postby Tangled Metal » 13 May 2019, 10:47pm

Personally I get the impression that the UK is more likely than Sweden to do an extradition deal with the US. I think the UK is more likely to be a US poodle. Plus the US is planning on a charge that has direct equivalent to UK offences so they're ticking the extradition requirements for the UK. Not sure how different the Swedish process is like if course.

Another point, if the US were doing cloak and dagger deal with Sweden then it's a long winded process. Sweden has to present the UK with an extradition application that is for equivalent offence to UK list of offences and would have to present evidence of sufficient strength to get the extradition through. Then Sweden would then have to give up on the prosecution they extradited on. Then the US then has to go through the Swedish extradition process. IIRC Sweden over 7 years ago said Assange would answer to any crimes committed in Sweden before they'd listen to requests for extradition from foreign nations. What has changed since then?

Would it not be easier for the US to get extradition from a strong ally or from a "socialist" Scandinavian country?