Is getting on a stop after your train ticket start point illegal in England?

[thirdcrank]

Overall, is just one more of the things which make rail travel not worth the hassle.

How?

By the feeling that train travel requires a lot of research to get the right deal. The suggestion that you don't have to look into it, you can pay top whack if you want misses the point. It's an example of where the market mechanism doesn't work properly because customers cannot easily access the information to make informed decisions so they opt out. For the market to work properly, it should be possible to ascertain quickly - and without any lurking doubts about sharp practices - the best price for a given journey. Things like it costing more for a shorter journey just contribute to those doubts. None of this needs to be rational/logical by others' standards: it need be no more than a vague wish to avoid being ripped off.

It may be somehow wrong or hard to understand that people act in this way but they do. Also, although people like a bargain, they are suspicious of complicated discounts and that fear that they are being ripped off.

I suspect something very similar is the reason why many people don't go to a lot of trouble to try to find the best gas/electricity deals, but in that case they cannot opt out altogether: there's no equivalent of getting in the car.

I like to think I'm unaffected by media waffle but who knows? Most threads on here about rail travel do nothing to endear me to travel by train, even though I can see it's objectively the best mode of travel for many journeys.

[Vitara]

So when I purchased a ticket from Southampton to Bath with a bike reservation, then discovered the train only went as far as Trowbridge due to engineering works I'm in breach of the T&C's: My ticket says I should not get off until Bath, but the train isn't going that far & I can't take my bike on the replacement bus services

I heard on the radio last week that the variety and complexity of rail ticket prices is impossible to understand and for some long journeys if can be cheaper to buy 4 separate tickets than 1 straight through ticket.

Maybe I'm missing something but surely there is no reason for it to be this complicated? The majority of things we purchase are unit priced with quantity discounts; groceries, building material, gas, electricity. Car travel can even be costed out, 46p/mile according to my employer & HMRC.

So why aren't rail fares calculated per mile traveled with a % discount over certain distances and for off peak. Or is that just to easy?

[kwackers]

My partner had a return to some place down south, on the way down she wanted to get off a stop early (whilst returning via the stop she'd booked to since someone was picking her up).
The ticket inspector made a right fuss, wanted her to wait for the next train to continue her journey to the next stop and then buy a ticket to go back to that one!

She refused (the next train was over an hour away) and he begrudgingly let her through the barrier.

[rjb]

Recently I used a return ticket from London to Taunton which only stopped at reading and taunton. When I got to paddington I decided to take a different train going to Bristol Temple meads, then changed to a local train which stopped at all the stations so I could get off one stop early in Bridgwater, as it meant I could walk home from there. The ticket was checked several times by ticket inspectors and the platform operators in Bridgwater. No one batted and eyelid or mentioned any problem. Perhaps First Great Western are more accommodating.

[PH]

Recently I used a return ticket from London to Taunton which only stopped at reading and taunton. When I got to paddington I decided to take a different train going to Bristol Temple meads, then changed to a local train which stopped at all the stations so I could get off one stop early in Bridgwater, as it meant I could walk home from there. The ticket was checked several times by ticket inspectors and the platform operators in Bridgwater. No one batted and eyelid or mentioned any problem. Perhaps First Great Western are more accommodating.

Or maybe it was just a permitted route.

[PH]

So why aren't rail fares calculated per mile traveled with a % discount over certain distances and for off peak. Or is that just to easy?

The offers are there to encourage you, maybe to make journeys that you wouldn't otherwise.
For example, there's often offers from Derby to London, particularly on the slower trains that stop more often and are rarely at capacity. Those trains stop in Bedford, now with no disrespect to Bedford, not many people will be tempted to go there from Derby however cheap the ticket and those that are going will pay the usual price as long as it isn't essessive. On the other hand, it's quite likely that with the right offer you could tempt some people to go for a day out in London who wouldn't otherwise.
So the train company gives you an offer to London to sell more seats, it doesn't give you an offer to Bedford because it won't increase sales. From a business point of view, it's easy to understand why they don't want you to use the London offer and go to Bedford.
I hope that makes sense...

[horizon]

Ticket buying is a minefield and for the uninitiated a nightmare. But for those in the know ... I discovered I could reduce the price of a return to Christchurch by about £60 by getting off at Bournemouth or buying another ticket between the two (about a fiver). I now know why they do this - it's to avoid you taking the faster but more congested route via Southampton. It makes sense but the learning curve is a steep one. Funnily enough they could cancel HS2 and cut the time of travel by a couple of hours just by making the process of buying tickets easier.

[Vitara]

So why aren't rail fares calculated per mile traveled with a % discount over certain distances and for off peak. Or is that just to easy?

The offers are there to encourage you, maybe to make journeys that you wouldn't otherwise.
For example, there's often offers from Derby to London, particularly on the slower trains that stop more often and are rarely at capacity. Those trains stop in Bedford, now with no disrespect to Bedford, not many people will be tempted to go there from Derby however cheap the ticket and those that are going will pay the usual price as long as it isn't essessive. On the other hand, it's quite likely that with the right offer you could tempt some people to go for a day out in London who wouldn't otherwise.
So the train company gives you an offer to London to sell more seats, it doesn't give you an offer to Bedford because it won't increase sales. From a business point of view, it's easy to understand why they don't want you to use the London offer and go to Bedford.
I hope that makes sense...

Yes and No

You could still do this with unit pricing. You just apply a bigger % discount on the per mile fare price on the routes where you want to use up capacity. Derby to London, 130 miles, at standard fare of 45p/mile = £52, off peak or indirect route discount of 40% = 27p/mile = £35

I've used some fairly guesstimate figures I know but I'm sure you get the picture. If fares were calculated this way you could calculate roughly what any journey might cost you just by knowing the distance between your chosen locations.

[PH]

You could still do this with unit pricing. You just apply a bigger % discount on the per mile fare price on the routes where you want to use up capacity. Derby to London, 130 miles, at standard fare of 45p/mile = £52, off peak or indirect route discount of 40% = 27p/mile = £35
.

I think you've missed the point, it's the same route, at the same time, on the same train. The ticket to London on the train that goes through Bedford is sometimes on offer cheaper than the ticket to Bedford. You can't do that with unit pricing.

[Boyd]

Do it all the time never a problem. Buy a return ticket to Manchester but on return get on at Stockport. Never had a problem?

[Cyril Haearn]

Bedford (John Bunyan) and Derby (railway industry) are you both very interesting and well worth a day or more

[jgurney]

Recently I used a return ticket from London to Taunton..... decided to take a different train.. to Bristol.... , then changed to a local train... so I could get off.... in Bridgwater,.... No one batted and eyelid or mentioned any problem.

As it was a return and so was not an advance ticket, that was fine: they include that flexibility. If it had been an advance single from Paddington to Taunton via Westbury, that different journey would not have been allowed.

As I wrote above, the complaints seem to be from people choosing to buy cheap advance fares but moaning when they don't get the flexibility which only comes with the more expensive ones. It's rather like someone walking past a restaurant, going into a fish and chip shop, and making a fuss because the service and ambiance are not restaurant quality.

[jgurney]

Do it all the time never a problem. Buy a return ticket to Manchester but on return get on at Stockport. Never had a problem?

You won't. A return ticket must be a anytime or off-peak which are flexible. The inflexible advance fares only come as singles.

[sjs]

some times the tickets say some thing to the effect any suitable route so then you can? or not via some particular station what then? seems suggest some choice?

No, any permitted route means one that is acceptable under the routing guide
http://data.atoc.org/routeing-guide

There are some tickets, like the expensive Anytime ones, where you can break a journey anywhere along the route, so it would be easy to travel short with one of these. Though I doubt you would save any money compared to the fare for the journey made.

"any per

I've often wondered what "any permitted route" meant. Just seems tautologous (permitted routes=routes we permit). So thanks for the link. Shame it's so complicated though. There must be scope for a more user-friendly format.

[Boyd]

Do it all the time never a problem. Buy a return ticket to Manchester but on return get on at Stockport. Never had a problem?

You won't. A return ticket must be a anytime or off-peak which are flexible. The inflexible advance fares only come as singles.

I only by anytime and Grimsby is always off peak,