Indyref2

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Indyref2

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 7 Mar 2017, 3:58pm

Hi,
Nothing against another ref in Scotland, I don't think its going to affect us that much and after Salmond refused to discuss the currency he would use, it will remain a non starter as they will need their own currency, if not they how independent is it really.

I say be satisfied with what they have and don't rock the boat, unless it will be better for the Scots?
If Brexit was bad then how bad would a second Scottish ref actually be, or will it every be likely.
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landsurfer
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Re: Indyref2

Postby landsurfer » 7 Mar 2017, 4:08pm

I think another ref in Scotland would be great idea .... its a win win situation.
If the vote is yes for independence then off they go .... hooray. !
If the vote is no then the SNP and the Krankies are at an end ..... hooray !
It's all good .....
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ChrisOntLancs
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Re: Indyref2

Postby ChrisOntLancs » 7 Mar 2017, 4:31pm

love the scottish. while we're all fighting to get out of europe, those guys are fighting to get westminster out of... err.. .them.

i'd love something like that.

(though i am still open to the idea that brexit wasn't the end of the world, same if it was remain, and if scotland scays or scottles off)

Psamathe
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Re: Indyref2

Postby Psamathe » 7 Mar 2017, 4:43pm

I had been thinking that it would not happen - the crash in the oil price would make the financial case for an independent Scotland look terrible (lots of "ammunition" for the Better Together Campaign). But now I'm not so sure. Financial impacts of these types of thing seem less important than the emotive/nationalistic type of arguments (just look at Brexit). Lots of good slogans the SNP could re-use like "Taking Back Control ..." and to start quoting how much money they send to Westminster each week, etc.

And I think Chairman May's attitude will help the SNP encourage more to vote for an independent Scotland.

And I suspect that what currency an independent Scotland would use if something of a less important detail. Even after Greece's financial woes and rescue, I still question if the UK would have been better in the Eurozone. For many years it would have made life a lot easier for our exporters (no managing exchange rates, playing currency markets, etc.) meaning higher profits. Ok, a cost (shared amongst many) when e.g. Greece has issues but that is a small blip after many years of far easier more profitable business. So I'm unsure. Hence, were Scotland to switch to the Euro I suspect it would not make a big change to the outcome of their independence referendum (it could be expressed in terms of Scotland moving closer to the EU than Westminster ... which might be well received by the electorate).

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Paulatic
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Re: Indyref2

Postby Paulatic » 7 Mar 2017, 7:20pm

Personally I'm prepared to wait and see what the outcome of Brexit is going to be for us all. I'm a remainer but I'd be happy to be wrong.There are so many uncertainties at the moment I don't think we need more. For the moment I think many of us are referendumbed out.
Then on the other hand TM visits Scotland and makes a speech which I imagine agitated more people than it placated. Can anyone point to me anywhere in that speech she said she understood the people of Scotland worries regarding Brexit? Or that she was listening to the people of a country who voted overwhelmingly to remain and said anything to calm their fears.
If she did say anything along those lines I missed it and all I heard were her thoughts of rescinding existing powers and threats to fall in line with the rest of U.K. Or else!
The outcome of an Indy2 is anyone's guess but I think once again too close to call.
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Re: Indyref2

Postby Cyril Haearn » 7 Mar 2017, 8:48pm

ChrisOntLancs wrote:love the scottish. while we're all fighting to get out of europe, those guys are fighting to get westminster out of... err.. .them.

i'd love something like that.

(though i am still open to the idea that brexit wasn't the end of the world, same if it was remain, and if scotland scays or scottles off)


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Psamathe
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Re: Indyref2

Postby Psamathe » 7 Mar 2017, 11:52pm

Paulatic wrote:....Then on the other hand TM visits Scotland and makes a speech which I imagine agitated more people than it placated.......

TM's speech did exactly what she intended and was directed at what she considers most important above everything else - her party and her staying in charge. She has no real threats from outside her party for the foreseeable future, no elections to face so she is secure unless her party start to get upset with her. So everything she does is all about keeping her party on her side and her speech did just that.

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Paulatic
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Re: Indyref2

Postby Paulatic » 8 Mar 2017, 7:45am

Psamathe wrote:
Paulatic wrote:....Then on the other hand TM visits Scotland and makes a speech which I imagine agitated more people than it placated.......

TM's speech did exactly what she intended and was directed at what she considers most important above everything else - her party and her staying in charge. She has no real threats from outside her party for the foreseeable future, no elections to face so she is secure unless her party start to get upset with her. So everything she does is all about keeping her party on her side and her speech did just that.

Ian

That seems very true and did you see the turnout?

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Indyref2

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 8 Mar 2017, 9:56am

Hi,
I see today a minister is discussing support for north sea oil.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-39198839
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Re: Indyref2

Postby Psamathe » 8 Mar 2017, 11:05am

(Personal opinion) I cannot see any reason why an independent Scotland cannot be just as viable an economy as that of the UK. I think North Sea Oil has probably hindered it a bit as that has probably received a lot of focus and attention and thus other industries have lagged a bit. Plus, having Westminster with it's focus on London will not have helped (but then many other regions of the UK outside London and South East has suffered as well). I accept that Scotland faces specific challenges, but so do most regions of the UK, but nothing to stop it working as an independent nation. Probably help if it were a member of the EU as well.

Ian

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Mick F
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Re: Indyref2

Postby Mick F » 8 Mar 2017, 1:50pm

How many people live in Scotland? 6M?
If Scotland is an independent nation, how does it rank in size with other independent nations?
Do they manage ok?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... on_in_2000
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Psamathe
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Re: Indyref2

Postby Psamathe » 8 Mar 2017, 3:24pm

Mick F wrote:How many people live in Scotland? 6M?
If Scotland is an independent nation, how does it rank in size with other independent nations?
Do they manage ok?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... on_in_2000

about the same as El Salvador. Compare to e.g. Belize which has around 300,000 population (and it's own currency). So 6M is quite reasonable. Costa Rica 5M. Luxembourg 500,000. etc., etc.

Ian

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Mick F
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Re: Indyref2

Postby Mick F » 8 Mar 2017, 3:30pm

Yep, I sort of agree. They could just about manage ok.

Besides currency, what about:
The BBC, DVLA, Passports, National Insurance, Pensions, Network Rail, Met Office ............ the list is endless, so I reckon it's more trouble than it's worth to go independent.
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Re: Indyref2

Postby rualexander » 8 Mar 2017, 4:01pm

Whats the problem?
Scotland would manage just as well as an independent nation as any other country, why wouldn't it ?
Scotland's population is around 5.5 million, similar to Denmark, Finland, Norway, Singapore, Ireland, New Zealand, etc. and would also sit in the middle of those countries in terms of GDP per capita.
Even without oil revenues, which are currently more or less zero, Scotland's GDP per capita is only 1% lower than the UK's.

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pwa
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Re: Indyref2

Postby pwa » 8 Mar 2017, 4:08pm

Mick F wrote:Yep, I sort of agree. They could just about manage ok.

Besides currency, what about:
The BBC, DVLA, Passports, National Insurance, Pensions, Network Rail, Met Office ............ the list is endless, so I reckon it's more trouble than it's worth to go independent.


That's only if the rest of the UK chose to be awkward about things. There is no reason why the RUK and Scotland could not share the BBC and other institutions and infrastructure. I would hope and expect that the rest of us would wish the Scots all the best for the future and not put unnecessary obstacles in their way. All the same, if asked, I'd prefer they stay with us.