Fingerprints - USA

[thirdcrank]

This is just idle curiosity, but I hope somebody with local knowledge will have the answer. While looking into something quite unconnected, I stumbled across the website of Radford, Virginia. The FAQ's on the homepage has this:

When can I have my fingerprints taken?

There's no explanation other than details of when this "service" is available. It's listed between parking permits and refuse disposal as a presumably routine activity.

I'm bemused.

http://www.radfordva.gov/

[gaz]

If you are arrested for suspicion of commiting a crime on Thursday evening, you'll have to wait in the cells until 11am Tuesday morning before your fingerprints are taken?

Bit harsh if you're innocent .

[hujev]

Unfortunately everybody is now guilty in americaland except the ruling class and their sycophants, and 'Total Information', especially biometrics and other 'permanent' identifiers is the dream of the power machine. It's the nightmare world of the future.

[Mistik-ka]

I'm bemused.

Not half as much, I'd wager, as I am in contemplating how you "stumbled across the website of Radford, Virginia."
Fell off the back of a lorry, did it?
Or were you perhaps seeking information on their Cow Pie Bingo http://www.radfordva.gov/Calendar.aspx?EID=910?

[thirdcrank]

Mistik-ka

The answer is simple but I didn't want to detract from my point by waffling on about it.

As you know from your Beeston research, we have a municipal online photographic archive: Leodis Leeds. Recently, a lot of new material has been added about municipal parks in Leeds. It may be an urban myth but I grew up believing that Leeds had more public open space than any other city in Europe. Anyway among the new material is a the picture of a former Director of Parks , Thomas R Trigg, taken on his retirement. He was the Director for a number of years when the Parks Department was considerably more important than it is today. The picture is undated which seems rather sad. It's hardly a common name, so I searched online for any biographical information and I found that there's a Thomas R Trigg Recreational Park In Radford Virginia. While was thus idling away my time, I noticed the intriguing thing about fingerprints.

http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?reso ... 330_176032

It continues to intrigue me because I can understand why a local authority collects refuse and controls parking, but I don't understand why they take fingerprints. I do understand the principles of identification by fingerprints but a locally-based system seems weird. If they need my fingerprints before I can park my car, it doesn't make it clear. Had it said something like "Registration of birth, marriages and deaths, Tuesday and Thursday only, I'd hardly have noticed.

[Mistik-ka]

I believe it is not uncommon for parents in the U.S. to keep an up-to-date "I.D. Kit" including fingerprints, to identify their children in case of …… (fill in the blank, based on your view of the risks inherent in your locale). The F.B.I. promote the practice here:
https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/stories/2006/july/idkits072406

While there are more up-to-date mechanisms to obtain and record fingerprints, this might be a low-tech service that some parents consider useful. (The apparent notion that government at any level is obliged to provide services may indicate that Radford, Virginia is not keeping up with the times.)

[Mick F]

.............. It may be an urban myth but I grew up believing that Leeds had more public open space than any other city in Europe.

I understand (understood?) that it was Glasgow that had more public open spaces.
From what I remember from living up there, they were very proud of this fact. Greenest city in Europe ....... or at least UK.

Trouble is "Green" means something else these days. ie not grass and open parkland.

[[XAP]Bob]

They also require fingerprinting for things like driver registration when you expect to carry members of the public (I.e. Taxi or uber) in various places

[Vorpal]

Some places in the USA do fingerprinting as part of the police check for working with children & vulnerable people. So, teachers, coaches, family counsellors, etc., may have to submit finger prints prior to being hired or obtaining a certificate.

[thirdcrank]

Some places in the USA do fingerprinting as part of the police check for working with children & vulnerable people. So, teachers, coaches, family counsellors, etc., may have to submit finger prints prior to being hired or obtaining a certificate.

That sounds right.

Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System (IAFIS): a national automated fingerprint identification and criminal history system maintained by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). The Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System provides automated fingerprint search capabilities, latent searching capability, electronic image storage, and electronic exchange of fingerprints and responses. IAFIS is the largest biometric database in the world, housing the fingerprints and criminal histories of 70 million subjects in the criminal master file, 31 million civil prints and fingerprints from 73,000 known and suspected terrorists processed by the U.S. or by international law enforcement agencies.[76] Fingerprints are voluntarily submitted to the FBI by local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies. These agencies acquire the fingerprints through criminal arrests or from non-criminal sources, such as employment background checks and the US-VISIT program. The FBI has announced plans to replace IAFIS with a Next Generation Identification system.[77][78][79][80]
(My emphasis.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governmen ... ted_States

I suppose the locals are used to it so they don't need an explanation when it's in there with parking tickets and bin collections. The equivalent UK system involves cumbersome checks of documentation with no certain way of linking individuals to convictions.

https://www.gov.uk/disclosure-barring-s ... k/overview

[Vorpal]

The US database isn't necessarily accurate. Some local authorities are very slow to update it with arrests and convictions, and even slower to update it with things like convictions overturned. There are issues with how local databases communicate with the federal one and each other. Also, I know that fingerprinting has been around a long time, but only recently have they begun studying erros in the methods. Methods differ from one place to another. And a 'match' is taken as definitive by many people, but it's really just a probability. With millions more people to compare samples to, how many more incorrect matches are likely?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3093498/

In addition, some studies have found bias
https://psmag.com/bias-and-the-big-fing ... 554fa2ac20

[thirdcrank]

There's a difference between identifying somebody from "marks" at the scene of a crime, and comparing a full set of finger and palm prints taken eg following a conviction with another full set taken, as suggested in this case when somebody applies for a job involving contact with vulnerable people.

In the former circumstance, it's rare for there to be more than a relatively small part of the person's complete print area to be left. Having said that, it does happen. In one of my own cases from my days as a detective in the 1970's somebody broke into a bank training school, ie, set up for role-play by trainee bank clerks, and left two virtually complete hand prints on the window at point of entry. He also left behind his wallet containing more cash than the value of the bits and pieces he stole and enough personal detail for me to be able to ask for a comparison of the fingerprint collection. Without automation, there was no way of checking marks like these against the main collection so without a name, there would have been no identification. The easiest cases are always, well, the easiest.

[blackbike]

Unfortunately everybody is now guilty in americaland except the ruling class and their sycophants, and 'Total Information', especially biometrics and other 'permanent' identifiers is the dream of the power machine. It's the nightmare world of the future.

They don't have the state and its criminal law system snooping on them to make sure they pay it for the right to use a TV set.

Countries are different. They all have different laws.