Rift within the UK

[francovendee]

I don't want to start yet another Brexit discussion, there's plenty on this forum about that.
In 74 years of life I have never seen such vitriol coming from both sides even after 'negative campaigning' General Elections. The Brexit outcome is now decided yet it is still continuing. I know one family no longer speaking to each other and it's certainly a subject not to raise at a dinner with people you thought you knew.
I put this down to, with a General Election losers have to accept defeat but can console themselves with ' if they make a mess of it we'll get another chance to change things at the next election, so it may not be long term.
Obviously Brexit is a one way street and I wonder what it will take to unite the country again?

[gaz]

I wonder what it will take to unite the country again?

A time machine set to the summer of 1940, perhaps .

[al_yrpal]

Britain has always been divided along political lines. The vote to get out of the EU has just heightened tensions because it's such a big step. If you look at many other nations they are divided too, the USA and France are classic examples. Many others are even more divided with repression and bloodshed which is far worse.

I remember the 60s and early 70s when we were in very poor shape economically after the War and being excluded from the EEC. People were relieved when we were able to join and voted for what we were told was simply a Common Market and nothing more.

Things won't change, the Remainers will continue to complain however good or bad things are and the Leavers will be happy however good or bad things are.

Al

[Audax67]

Not just the UK. The unscrupulous have realized just how good a tool hate can be, and how easily the millions who used to get their news from Télé 7 Jours* can be influenced via the Internet. Given half a chance - or rather, 50.01% of a chance - the part of Alsace where I live would have the concentration camps back tomorrow and lots of volunteers to help fill them.

*TV mag mainly concerned with which star was sleeping with/divorcing/whatevering which.

[Cunobelin]

It was always going to be a problem for a number of reasons.

Firstly both campaigns were "economical with the truth" and exaggerated claims, so the vote was never going to be honest

Secondly there is a refusal to believe that anyone who is not 100% enthusiastic is not worth listening to. Look at the way any idea from the remain group is dismissed as that of a "remainer" Classic try and dismiss the person with the idea and hence not even discuss it

Thirdly there is going to be a lot of disappointment as people realise that their dreams of all immigrants going home and curly British lAws being in place as soon as we triggered Article 50 are being gradually washed away as reality bites. We will retain most laws - all that is happening is that EU is being crossed out with a large crayon and UK entered above

All this of course is the fault of the "other side"

[softlips]

Things won't change, the Remainers will continue to complain however good or bad things are and the Leavers will be happy however good or bad things are.

Al

Ain't that the truth. The friends and colleagues I have who moan about the result of the referendum almost without exception are the ones who moan about everything. The supporters of the result tend to be much more positive about everything.

[pwa]

The best we can do is just get on with things and accept that there is good in people on the other side of the argument.

[blackbike]

I am unsurprised by the tone of the Brexit campaign and its aftermath, especially that of a significant minority the losing side.

As a long time reader of the Guardians 'Comment is Free' section, and its readers comments, and as a person who has worked in education, it has been obvious to me for years that sections of our self-styled 'liberal' and 'progressive' population have very low opinions indeed of anyone who is not as clever, educated, enlightened and altruistic as they claim to be.

Brexit seems to have provoked them into a frenzy of anger and despair, and has caused them to lose all inhibition about telling the rest of us what they think of us and our decision.

But I don't think the UK is more divided now than it has been in recent decades. It is just that recent events have caused more people to express their opinions and have them acted on by parliament after it had received our advice.

[pete75]

Yes and the divisions may get worse. It's a common tactic of the right to blame a nations ills on outsiders. For the past few years the "outsiders" chosen was the EU. When they find that leaving teh EU hasn't solved the nations ills they'll start looking for new targets to blame. These will have to be internal which will cause further division.

[pete75]

Given half a chance - or rather, 50.01% of a chance - the part of Alsace where I live would have the concentration camps back tomorrow and lots of volunteers to help fill them.

*TV mag mainly concerned with which star was sleeping with/divorcing/whatevering which.

And aid that the problem with some people's idea of democracy. There's more than a few here who would support the idea that if 51% of the population voted to have the other 49% put to death that would be a democratic decision to be put into place asap - assuming they were one of the 51%. Their opinion is that the views of a minority no matter how large are irrelevant. It's the sort of attitude that causes rifts.

[francovendee]

I am unsurprised by the tone of the Brexit campaign and its aftermath, especially that of a significant minority the losing side.

As a long time reader of the Guardians 'Comment is Free' section, and its readers comments, and as a person who has worked in education, it has been obvious to me for years that sections of our self-styled 'liberal' and 'progressive' population have very low opinions indeed of anyone who is not as clever, educated, enlightened and altruistic as they claim to be.

Brexit seems to have provoked them into a frenzy of anger and despair, and has caused them to lose all inhibition about telling the rest of us what they think of us and our decision.

But I don't think the UK is more divided now than it has been in recent decades. It is just that recent events have caused more people to express their opinions and have them acted on by parliament after it had received our advice.

This paragraph is what I am referring to. After any election, tempers in the past have calmed down and as a nation we've got on with it, whether your side won or lost. Brexit seems to not be like this and I still think it's because it's more final.
I agree with al-yrpal that the country has always had divisions but nothing like this. The nearest I can remember is Tony Bliar and the Iraq war.
I just hope leaving is a huge success, if not the nastiness will likely continue. If it's a success then it'll be forgotten that we were so divided over it.

[pwa]

Each and every one of us has an opportunity to make things better by helping to heal the division. As a start we can stop using words that are intended to get under the skin of the other side. Let's leave them out and start building bridges.

[[XAP]Bob]

Given half a chance - or rather, 50.01% of a chance - the part of Alsace where I live would have the concentration camps back tomorrow and lots of volunteers to help fill them.

*TV mag mainly concerned with which star was sleeping with/divorcing/whatevering which.

And aid that the problem with some people's idea of democracy. There's more than a few here who would support the idea that if 51% of the population voted to have the other 49% put to death that would be a democratic decision to be put into place asap - assuming they were one of the 51%. Their opinion is that the views of a minority no matter how large are irrelevant. It's the sort of attitude that causes rifts.

thirty something percent I think you'll find...

[Boyd]

Yes and the divisions may get worse. It's a common tactic of the right to blame a nations ills on outsiders. For the past few years the "outsiders" chosen was the EU. When they find that leaving teh EU hasn't solved the nations ills they'll start looking for new targets to blame. These will have to be internal which will cause further division.

You hope!

[Psamathe]

I think things have got a lot worse because of the campaigning style that seems to be accepted these days and I put a lot of that down to Sir Lynton Crosby. Just look at what he was directing Zac Goldsmith to say through his by-election campaign (and that was so bad it actually back-fired a bit).

Campaigning under Sir Lynton seems to have removed the idea of politicians telling us what they will do, what policies they'll pursue, and instead we get unbelievable simplistic soundbites directly or indirectly being critical/rude of opposing candidates. And then the winner, who has told us nothing of their policies declares they have a mandate to do as they wish.

I'd always imagined that the word "politician" and "policies" related to the word "policy" but these days it seems not and instead we have attacks and nastiness and politicians treating the public like mindless idiots.

And it is maybe that that is aggravating the rift. It is caused by politicians/Sir Lynton but they don't seem to be able to recognise it and only they can address it (through their own behaviour). and if they can't recognise the shortcomings of their own behaviour how they stand any hope of recognising what needs to be done to run a country.

Ian