Manchester

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landsurfer
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Manchester

Postby landsurfer » 23 May 2017, 7:05pm

How do we stop fellow Brits killing Brits ....
Targeting children .....
Beyond understanding :(
I'm ignoring the news programs.
Heard enough at 0738hrs, and 1100hrs today ....
:(
The Road Goes On Forever

Boyd
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Joined: 24 Oct 2016, 11:56pm

Re: Manchester

Postby Boyd » 23 May 2017, 7:19pm

landsurfer wrote:How do we stop fellow Brits killing Brits ....
Targeting children .....
Beyond understanding :(
I'm ignoring the news programs.
Heard enough at 0738hrs, and 1100hrs today ....
:(

In Manchester at the moment brother nipped off earlier to vigil.
landsurfer wrote:How do we stop fellow Brits killing Brits ....

Religious extremists killed them from all over the world. Those that encouraged them are equally responsible.

pwa
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Re: Manchester

Postby pwa » 23 May 2017, 7:21pm

We have among us people who want our children dead. People who do not share even our most basic values. All I can say is that, coming from that part of Northern England I have known muslims in that region and I am confident that the overwhelming majority will share our horror and despair at this attack on young people. If we keep that in focus we will deny the bomber his prize.

reohn2
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Re: Manchester

Postby reohn2 » 23 May 2017, 7:54pm

I in no way condone what has happened in the Manchester bombing,it's a despicable act of a deluded individual with twisted belief that killing people in such a barbaric way is the will of God.

That said we really need to ask another question.
What brought about such thinking and what causes such hatred?

We the,so called first world,have raped and pillaged the middle east and Africa for centuries,the recent wars we have caused and waged against these societies and peoples has claimed many,many more thousands of children killed and maimed in these countries.
Is it any wonder such activity causes such a backlash?
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blackbike
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Re: Manchester

Postby blackbike » 23 May 2017, 8:19pm

pwa wrote:We have among us people who want our children dead. People who do not share even our most basic values. All I can say is that, coming from that part of Northern England I have known muslims in that region and I am confident that the overwhelming majority will share our horror and despair at this attack on young people. If we keep that in focus we will deny the bomber his prize.


Where killing and terrorism are concerned I prefer my overwhelming majorities of peaceful, violence abhorring people to be very nearly 100%.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31293196

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meic
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Re: Manchester

Postby meic » 23 May 2017, 10:01pm

Not that we would expect that from anybody other than Muslims.
The same questions asked to non-Muslims give quite similar results.
Yma o Hyd

pwa
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Re: Manchester

Postby pwa » 23 May 2017, 10:04pm

blackbike wrote:
pwa wrote:We have among us people who want our children dead. People who do not share even our most basic values. All I can say is that, coming from that part of Northern England I have known muslims in that region and I am confident that the overwhelming majority will share our horror and despair at this attack on young people. If we keep that in focus we will deny the bomber his prize.


Where killing and terrorism are concerned I prefer my overwhelming majorities of peaceful, violence abhorring people to be very nearly 100%.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31293196


None of us has to accept being tarnished by others with whom we share a label. If one person labeling himself as a muslim seeks to kill youngsters in Manchester it is not right to point a finger at muslims who oppose that action. I don't know how many muslims would condone what happened last night but my guess would be that the percentage would be tiny. Even if it were not, and say 10% supported it, would it be right to view all muslims as the enemy? That just feels wrong to me, especially as the muslims i have known have been decent people. And the bomber was aiming to provoke people like you and me into lashing out against muslims. I'm inclined to do the opposite.

Sorry R2, but people whose families have come to the UK and been allowed to stay should either try to become part of our society or go to the place they feel at home.

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meic
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Re: Manchester

Postby meic » 23 May 2017, 10:14pm

Sorry R2, but people whose families have come to the UK and been allowed to stay should either try to become part of our society or go to the place they feel at home.


Almost all of the terrorists have been British born and bred but you are awarding them second class citizenship, because of who their parents were, with comments like that.
Then you wonder why they dont feel like part of society.
Yma o Hyd

reohn2
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Re: Manchester

Postby reohn2 » 23 May 2017, 10:32pm

meic wrote:
Sorry R2, but people whose families have come to the UK and been allowed to stay should either try to become part of our society or go to the place they feel at home.


Almost all of the terrorists have been British born and bred but you are awarding them second class citizenship, because of who their parents were, with comments like that.
Then you wonder why they dont feel like part of society.


+1
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blackbike
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Re: Manchester

Postby blackbike » 23 May 2017, 10:52pm


Vorpal
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Re: Manchester

Postby Vorpal » 23 May 2017, 11:16pm

blackbike wrote:Some interesting finding here.

http://www.channel4.com/info/press/news ... ally-think

And what do you think the results would be if they asked the same questions of older conservative white British people? Except for the ones on Sharia and homosexuality, I doubt they'd be much different, and if the one on Sharia law were phrased in a white-British friendly kind of way, I daresay that might have similar results, too. The one on homosexuality... well I guess attitudes have changed in the last 20 years or so, huh? Or maybe people can admit to being okay about it, since it's been legal for a while now.

1) this was done to make a documentary, ergo, they were looking for entertainment value, even shock, not a scientific result
2) the survey was skewed by the areas they selected for participants http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/c ... 55639d65a9

It's only interesting if you want to use it to divide people.

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meic
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Re: Manchester

Postby meic » 23 May 2017, 11:27pm

So what type of religious folk are relaxed about homosexuality?
“If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”

Not from the Koran* but from the bible a bit shared by both Jews and Christians.

*though a lot of the Bible and Koran are probably cut and pasted between each other.
Yma o Hyd

blackbike
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Re: Manchester

Postby blackbike » 23 May 2017, 11:53pm

Vorpal wrote:
blackbike wrote:Some interesting finding here.

http://www.channel4.com/info/press/news ... ally-think

And what do you think the results would be if they asked the same questions of older conservative white British people? Except for the ones on Sharia and homosexuality, I doubt they'd be much different, and if the one on Sharia law were phrased in a white-British friendly kind of way, I daresay that might have similar results, too. The one on homosexuality... well I guess attitudes have changed in the last 20 years or so, huh? Or maybe people can admit to being okay about it, since it's been legal for a while now.

1) this was done to make a documentary, ergo, they were looking for entertainment value, even shock, not a scientific result
2) the survey was skewed by the areas they selected for participants http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/c ... 55639d65a9

It's only interesting if you want to use it to divide people.


I think lots of people find the survey interesting, and that's why Channel 4 conducted it and published the results.

Since you ask, I'd be very surprised if older, white conservative people had similar views to the ones revealed in this survey.

Do you really think that 66% of them would not tell the police about a person they suspected was getting involved with people who support terrorism?

pwa
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Re: Manchester

Postby pwa » 24 May 2017, 8:08am

meic wrote:
Sorry R2, but people whose families have come to the UK and been allowed to stay should either try to become part of our society or go to the place they feel at home.


Almost all of the terrorists have been British born and bred but you are awarding them second class citizenship, because of who their parents were, with comments like that.
Then you wonder why they dont feel like part of society.


The family came to the UK from Libya and were allowed to stay. The young man was born here and had the opportunity to be British but seems to have chosen not to be. I'm not talking about what passport he had, but what was in his heart. In a very real sense he chose to be foreign or alien. The choice was his. Interestingly his family were opponents of Ghaddafi and presumably welcomed the UK and others providing air support for those seeking to topple him.

I have known lots of people who are the offspring of immigrants, some muslim, and I have no hesitation in seeing them as fully paid up members of our society. I do not extend that to those who reject our society.

reohn2
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Re: Manchester

Postby reohn2 » 24 May 2017, 8:27am

pwa wrote:The family came to the UK from Libya and were allowed to stay. The young man was born here and had the opportunity to be British but seems to have chosen not to be.

No wrong,he is British,born here with as much right as any other British citizen
I'm not talking about what passport he had, but what was in his heart. In a very real sense he chose to be foreign or alien.

You'll have to define British-ness to back up that claim.
The choice was his.

Indeed,keep telling someone they're a dog and in the right environment they'll bark!

Interestingly his family were opponents of Ghaddafi and presumably welcomed the UK and others providing air support for those seeking to topple him.

We can't presume anything until we know

I have known lots of people who are the offspring of immigrants, some muslim, and I have no hesitation in seeing them as fully paid up members of our society. I do not extend that to those who reject our society.

Ah! so British-ness is now a club to join :?
Not as a birthright.......
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