Appointments

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Ben@Forest
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Re: Appointments

Postby Ben@Forest » 21 Jun 2017, 5:01pm

pliptrot wrote:Ah don't you just love these first world problems? But don't worry, everyone, the only health provision offered will soon be pay-as-you-use, and I am sure -for the right premium- you can be seen on time. Now, I am being impertinent and political, which is never far from discussions on the NHS, I suppose, but if you compare the NHS with European provision you will see that they spend more and get more. We have, of course, decided that better health care, better social provision and better treatment in general is just too much red tape and intrusion, and so we can march now unimpeded into an American system. Which is a total disaster for all but the richest. So if you really want to be seen on time, start saving up.


Once again the predictable 'they do it better in Europe' argument - which may be true - but it is also a different system which requires health insurance to be taken out.

E.g. in Germany you must go through the government-regulated public health insurance system, private health insurance or a combination of the two. This insurance also covers at least part of your sick pay if you are off work. You can go for full private plans if your income is above a certain threshold or if you are self-employed. And finally you must also take out long-term nursing care insurance - basically if you need care when you're old.

I'm not saying this is better or worse than the NHS 'free-at the-point of delivery' model - but if you believe Europeans do it better you are arguing that our model has to change. And for the record the Germans are struggling with an increasing age demographic as much as we are, and there have been significant rises in premiums over the last 10 years.

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Mick F
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Re: Appointments

Postby Mick F » 21 Jun 2017, 5:53pm

pliptrot wrote:......... So if you really want to be seen on time, start saving up.
Ok
I'll start saving up.

If they make an appointment with me, I expect them to keep it.
Mick F. Cornwall

pliptrot
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Re: Appointments

Postby pliptrot » 21 Jun 2017, 7:43pm

Ben@Forest wrote:I'm not saying this is better or worse than the NHS 'free-at the-point of delivery' model - but if you believe Europeans do it better you are arguing that our model has to change.
Not at all - it just needs to be properly funded. The NHS -by ANY measure- offers the best value of any system. What needs to change is the funding level - seems the British want great public services but are not prepared to pay for them. Current dogma is about privatisation, which has failed everywhere else. The Europeans do have it better, because they fund their systems better. How the money is raised is a moot point. The lack of it being put into the NHS (and all other public services) is a national disgrace for our newly enfeebled nation.

sloyd
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Joined: 25 Oct 2016, 12:35pm

Re: Appointments

Postby sloyd » 21 Jun 2017, 8:27pm

Some of you might need your blood pressure checked. Such busy lives you can't waste in a waiting room, instead spent on here ranting. More first world problems. Oh dear....

JohnW
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Re: Appointments

Postby JohnW » 21 Jun 2017, 8:52pm

Mick F wrote:..............What makes them think that their time is more important than my time?...................:


On the basis that their job/time is to save lives, it probably is. Who knows what the patient before you was suffering? They're underfunded and understaffed Mick.

pliptrot
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Re: Appointments

Postby pliptrot » 22 Jun 2017, 11:09am

JohnW wrote:They're underfunded and understaffed
Quite. If the economy wasn't so sick we could look after our sick better.......

JohnW
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Re: Appointments

Postby JohnW » 22 Jun 2017, 11:15am

pliptrot wrote:
JohnW wrote:They're underfunded and understaffed
Quite. If the economy wasn't so sick we could look after our sick better.......

Quite - +1 to that pliptrot

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Mick F
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Re: Appointments

Postby Mick F » 22 Jun 2017, 11:20am

There was nobody sick. It was a conveyor belt of appointments for a routine scan. That's all they were doing there, it wasn't even in the health centre, but the clinic round the corner.

They have apologised to me and they're putting me on the list for an early-in-the-day appointment next time they set up the scanning unit there. I am told it is going to be 2nd August.
Mick F. Cornwall

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Appointments

Postby [XAP]Bob » 22 Jun 2017, 12:13pm

Courtesy from the receptionists would go a long way in these cases.
Most people queuing to be seen would be happy to have 10 second delay whilst they stand up and just say 'we're running 15-20 minutes late at the moment'.
I've been in waiting rooms where the 'expected wait' is continually updated on screens...

One of the things that irritates me, since I need regular blood tests, is that I can't book a slot.
I don't mean they should all be booked/bookable by any means, but I'd quite like to be able to book a 10 minute slot, and then be able to turn up and get a predictable 'end' time.
I have to get kids up and need to be in the office at some point, and obviously everyone who has a 'fasting' test want to do 'first thing' as well... But since they shut the clinic at four in the afternoon I can't actually get there any other time...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Psamathe
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Re: Appointments

Postby Psamathe » 22 Jun 2017, 2:42pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:....
One of the things that irritates me, since I need regular blood tests, is that I can't book a slot.
I don't mean they should all be booked/bookable by any means, but I'd quite like to be able to book a 10 minute slot, and then be able to turn up and get a predictable 'end' time....

Then they'd have to deal with people getting angry and walking out if things were running late (I'm sure you wouldn't but some might!). And then they have wasted appointments, they have to re-book so one test then extends to two appointments, costs go up (and we all have to pay), etc., etc.

Ian

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Appointments

Postby [XAP]Bob » 22 Jun 2017, 3:36pm

No - they just need to not book things solid. You want the drop ins to be served in a reasonable time as well...

If you allow ~20% load to be booked then you get two benefits.
- A reduction in the number of people who arrive at one time (opening)
- Advance notice of desired load

And still have plenty of space for drop ins and 'late' appointments to be dealt with, because many people can't booked in advance.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Mick F
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Re: Appointments

Postby Mick F » 23 Jun 2017, 5:08pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:Courtesy from the receptionists would go a long way in these cases..
Indeed.
Utterly correct.
Mick F. Cornwall

Abradable Chin
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Re: Appointments

Postby Abradable Chin » 24 Jun 2017, 1:39pm

pliptrot wrote: it just needs to be properly funded.

I've been reading a lot of alternative thought, recently. One observation was that once we have decided on the things that are best provided centrally, like defence and healthcare, then it ought to be fully funded. We want these things because they are a benefit to productivity, so there is no point in half a bridge, or a two-thirds of a tunnel, or shoe-string time-sapping mistake-making healthcare, or an aircraft carrier with no aircraft to carry.
Part of this reading is "Modern Monetary Theory"; it is really a set of empirical observations, but one is that whilst we have some level of unemployment and spare capacity, there really is a magic money tree (despite what Hammond said), and spending from it does no harm whatsoever, it fact it would do good because we could fully-fund the NHS, fix the roads, provide a credible defence force etc.

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Mick F
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Re: Appointments

Postby Mick F » 2 Aug 2017, 10:36am

Off for my AAA re-arranged screening appointment this morning at 11:30
Driving to Callington clinic at maybe 11:15 - easy parking.

Any guesses at what time I'll be seen? :wink:
Mick F. Cornwall

Vorpal
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Re: Appointments

Postby Vorpal » 2 Aug 2017, 11:08am

Much of the problem with appoinments is that they have relatively set times for consultations. Although the rules were relaxed a few years ago, in theory to allow consultants and GPs more flexibility, for routine appointments, most trust use 15 or 20 minutes.

Although the average appointment time is less that that, there is considerable variation, and the system does not account for that.

Many GP surgeries manage it by leaving one or two periods in each for emergency consultations. They can use that time for actual emergencies, or make up time lost for consultations that take more than allotted time. Some trusts, however see this type of thing a poor time utilization, and do not allow it.

Our village GP surgery in England used to post waiting times together with the number of people who failed to turn up. Even at 9:30 in the morning, there were usuall already one or two.

For blood tests, we had two options. We could wait in queue on one of the days that they were doing them, or we could book a slot at a clinic in the town. That was only about 5 miles away, so I often did that instead. It was much easier to predict how long it would take.
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