Hung Parliament means Hung Parliament - the Hung Parliament thread

[meic]

Only because they wouldnt play that game. If they would play then they would have been welcomed into a rainbow coalition against the Tories.

[Ben@Forest]

Quite right,though the DUP's stance on other issues are somewhat narrow,abortion,homosexuality and climate change for a start

As peaches and old Victorian musical hall songs have been modded it's worth noting Sinn Fein's policy on abortion pretty well mirrors the DUP's stance.

But no-one is trying to use them to prop up a minority government

No, but considering the outpouring of moral outrage about the DUP's narrow-mindedness on this issue it's relevant to note that therefore Sinn Fein and a significant number of Catholics worldwide are also narrow-minded. Oh and also Muslims....

[meic]

Well, if you are going to be a religious person, you really should obey the commandments.
"Thou shalt not kill" is one of the big ten! Non-negotiable.

[Ben@Forest]

At least the neighbours don't have a female (or male) servant or an ox for me to covet...

[bovlomov]

But no-one is trying to use them to prop up a minority government

A week before the election May made a speech in which she expressed a wish to outlaw non violent extremism. She talked about extremists using "entryist tactics to infiltrate legitimate organisations to promote their own agendas”, and of banning orders for extremist groups that fall short of current terrorism proscription thresholds.

While the term 'non violent extremism' is ill-defined, the DUP would be categorised as extremists by almost any definition, whether or not they operate within the law. Infiltrating a legitimate organisation to promote their own agenda, is precisely what they are doing.

I consider May's stance on non-violent extremism to be dangerously illiberal - even extreme, one might say. However disgusting the opinions of DUP members may be, I see no reason that they should be criminalised. But May's willingness to cooperate with such an organisation is not consistent with her counter extremism rhetoric. For her to invite them to into the heart of government is the height of hypocrisy, and renders all her talk on the subject as so much hot air. It will surely come back to haunt her.

[old_windbag]

"Thou shalt not kill"

Which seems contradictory when we have army chaplains giving blessings to soldiers before they go off and kill people whether in defensive mode or attack. So they must be "christian" soldiers but most definitely not in the manner of the hymn.

It must also be "thou shalt not kill thy own species" as they seem to sacrifice and slaughter animals all over for gods benefit.

[Ben@Forest]

"Thou shalt not kill"

Which seems contradictory when we have army chaplains giving blessings to soldiers before they go off and kill people whether in defensive mode or attack. So they must be "christian" soldiers but most definitely not in the manner of the hymn.

It must also be "thou shalt not kill thy own species" as they seem to sacrifice and slaughter animals all over for gods benefit.

Apparently for a long time (I don't know whether that's decades or centuries) the earliest Christian communities were pacifist. You can imagine that certainly by the 6th century, when Islam was created, that would not have been a viable option for living 'as a Christian'

[661-Pete]

"Thou shalt not kill"

Which seems contradictory when we have army chaplains giving blessings to soldiers before they go off and kill people whether in defensive mode or attack. So they must be "christian" soldiers but most definitely not in the manner of the hymn.

It must also be "thou shalt not kill thy own species" as they seem to sacrifice and slaughter animals all over for gods benefit.

Plenty of debate over the years about this commandment. My copy of the Jewish Chumash (book version of the Torah with translation) gives "Thou shalt not murder" (לֹא תִּרְצָח) rather than "...kill". But what the original, archaic Hebrew word actually meant is anyone's guess.

If people literally obeyed the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" we'd all have to become vegetarians! Plus other things....

[meic]

The problem with though shall not murder is that it allows man's laws to over-rule God's laws.
Rather handy, say, for the Nazi's as they didnt class any state approved killings as murder, just as we dont.

[old_windbag]

You can imagine that certainly by the 6th century, when Islam was created, that would not have been a viable option for living 'as a Christian'

I think its best not to have any religion and just be a compassionate, kind human being..... to all species. I've met many who purport to be christian and regularly attend church, yet are the most selfish, self centred individuals imagineable...... rather sad but simply humans.

On a plus point the sky at night did interview some open minded vatican astronomers, even believing in the big bang..... steady .


661-pete:

Yes it could be even worse as "kill" could cover all plants too....... thats your vegetarianism plan foiled........ it's rocks all the way but full of essential elements.

meic:

Yes, and is it murder to kill a wounded fighter or can that just be put down to excessive stress in the job...... the conditions of murder can be altered by governments under public pressure too.

[Ben@Forest]

You can imagine that certainly by the 6th century, when Islam was created, that would not have been a viable option for living 'as a Christian'

I think its best not to have any religion and just be a compassionate, kind human being..... to all species. I've met many who purport to be christian and regularly attend church, yet are the most selfish, self centred individuals imagineable...... rather sad but simply humans.

In more overlooked news from Northern Ireland recently a humanist wedding has been recognised as having equal validity as a religious wedding.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40223435

[old_windbag]

humanist

According to wikipaedia, the font of all ( incorrect ) knowledge, Carl Sagan was one or had similar views.

Now that was an excellent series "Cosmos", BBC4 repeated one episode a few years ago but not the series. I have the book.

Buddhism also has some merits that would tie in with the above.

But lets stick with the destruction aspect for now as it'll be a big source of post brexit business, our arms sales .

[horizon]

I think the issue of the DUP is exaggerated. Their socially conservative policies are devolved issues: their real interest lies with a strong union with the UK, a natural Tory cause.

No, the real problem will be with May's own Tory MPs. And unlike David Cameron, she won't have the Lib Dems to support her against her right wing. The DUP gives the Tories a majority of two: that just takes a handful of Tory MPs to kick up and she's skewered. Jim Callaghan is said to have been relieved Thatcher won as he didn't have to face more daily negotiating. No, the DUP will probably be the loyal ones and gay rights a non-issue.

[Psamathe]

I think the issue of the DUP is exaggerated. Their socially conservative policies are devolved issues......

Have they undertaken not to vote in Westminster on issues that do not affect NI (e.g. English issues) as they are in effect participating/proping-up both UK Government and English Government.

But they are not reserved about trying to affect policy in other countries. For example, you refer to devolved issues like Gay Marriage, yet that it was devolved did not stop them trying to pressure Scotland when Scotland was making legislation to allow gay marriage

Theresa May’s new DUP ally ‘wrote to Scottish government to demand gay marriage curbs
...
Marco Biagi, who served as the Scottish Government’s minister for local government and community empowerment from 2014-16, said Arlene Foster had contacted him in 2015 to demand changes to Scotland’s planned laws.

Ian

[meic]

Misleading, as normal, for the Independent.
They were trying to stop Scotland from converting NI citizens from civil partnership to marriage.

They were only trying to keep that which was NOT devolved in line with what was devolved for their own registered "licences".