Tower Block Disaster

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pete75
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Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby pete75 » 14 Jun 2017, 10:03pm

landsurfer wrote:
To blame the Tories for this disaster is a disgraceful act


Is it? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 90501.html

If a party in power is responsible for a tragedy such as this they deserve to be blamed.

landsurfer
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Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby landsurfer » 14 Jun 2017, 10:09pm

pete75 wrote:
landsurfer wrote:
To blame the Tories for this disaster is a disgraceful act


Is it? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 90501.html

If a party in power is responsible for a tragedy such as this they deserve to be blamed.


" If ". I did't realise the cabinet was responsible for cladding tower blocks.
Lets wait for the enquiry, for calm reality to take over, rather than just political point scoring ......
Have some respect for the lives lost ... :(
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pete75
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Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby pete75 » 14 Jun 2017, 10:54pm

landsurfer wrote:
pete75 wrote:
landsurfer wrote:
To blame the Tories for this disaster is a disgraceful act


Is it? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 90501.html

If a party in power is responsible for a tragedy such as this they deserve to be blamed.


" If ". I did't realise the cabinet was responsible for cladding tower blocks.
Lets wait for the enquiry, for calm reality to take over, rather than just political point scoring ......
Have some respect for the lives lost ... :(


Ministers certainly are responsible for safety regulations

"Gavin Barwell, the Prime Minister’s new chief of staff, failed to give the go-ahead to a safety review during his tenure as housing minister, despite it already having been delayed for years.

His predecessor as housing minister Brandon Lewis declined to bring in regulation forcing developers to fit sprinklers because he said it was not the Government's responsibility."

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Paulatic
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Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby Paulatic » 14 Jun 2017, 11:01pm

landsurfer wrote:
pete75 wrote:
landsurfer wrote:
To blame the Tories for this disaster is a disgraceful act


Is it? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 90501.html

If a party in power is responsible for a tragedy such as this they deserve to be blamed.


" If ". I did't realise the cabinet was responsible for cladding tower blocks.
Lets wait for the enquiry, for calm reality to take over, rather than just political point scoring ......
Have some respect for the lives lost ... :(

Gavin Barwell a Tory who was part of the cabinet has, it is believed, sat on a safety report for over a year claiming he never had it? Gavin Barwell the man who wrote a book 'How to win a marginal seat' lost his lol
Gavin Barwell appointed to Mrs May's chief of staff on Saturday because he lost his seat.
I hope the above isn't point scoring as I merely see it as evidence to back up my belief of how Tories think.
Philip Davies filibustered the Housing Improvement debate a bill that would have required landlords to make homes “fit for human habitation”. Himself a landlord, Davies argued that the rule would put “a huge burden on landlords”.
And....don't start me on Rees Mogg who can't wait to Slash environmental and safety regulations. It's just the natural way their minds work. Profit for a few rules over everything else.
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bovlomov
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Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby bovlomov » 14 Jun 2017, 11:23pm

I believe Brandon Lewis was talking about responsibilities for private landlords, so it may not have made a difference here.

Nevertheless, he was quoted as saying "We believe that it is the responsibility of the fire industry, rather than the Government, to market fire sprinkler systems effectively and to encourage their wider installation."

Notice he says 'we'. That's the collective view of the government. And presumably the government will make the same argument to abolish legislation for car brakes, sanitary vent pipes, toughened glass on doors, and electrical earthing.

old_windbag
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Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby old_windbag » 15 Jun 2017, 12:14am

On the news they were looking at how tower blocks can be made safe from fires. They said you can adopt the american system of active fire control using sprinkler systems...... But that costs money. Err costs money, what have we become, its like the ford pinto saga where ford knew of a design flaw but costed that the design change would be more than compensation claims.

Apparently the uk tends to adopt passive control. In my life i can't remember that theres ever been a major tower block incident to raise alarm bells about safety. There was ronan point but lessons were learned and put right on a structural point. But recent years seem to be changing this safety record with mods to original buildings. Somethings gone amiss.

pete75
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Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby pete75 » 15 Jun 2017, 5:53am

old_windbag wrote: In my life i can't remember that theres ever been a major tower block incident to raise alarm bells about safety. .


Lakanal House 2009 six killed and 20 injured.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/news/london/west/k ... our-years/

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Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby Vorpal » 15 Jun 2017, 6:54am

pete75 wrote:
old_windbag wrote: In my life i can't remember that theres ever been a major tower block incident to raise alarm bells about safety. .


Lakanal House 2009 six killed and 20 injured.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/news/london/west/k ... our-years/

After which, the coroner made a number of recommendations, which if they had been followed, might have prevented loss of life now.
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Paulatic
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Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby Paulatic » 15 Jun 2017, 8:56am

A Harrowing report showing why this is political.

https://mobile.twitter.com/madamyez/sta ... 57/video/1
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661-Pete
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Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby 661-Pete » 15 Jun 2017, 9:29am

I've been hestitating for a long time about contributing on this thread, bearing in mind my former professional interest (for most of my working life I was in the Fire Alarm industry).

Sadly, I don't think anything I, or my former colleagues, could have done, could have lessened this awful tragedy. Admittedly this is mere speculation, but if it does indeed transpire that this building was a deadly fire-trap, with inadequate fire detection, alarm, and prevention measures, there's no help from our quarter. If landlords do not stump up to provide adequate cover, nothing doing.

I do, on the other hand, firmly believe that, in those public buildings such as hospitals, schools, shopping centres, sports venues, airports and the like, (examples of all of which, I've been involved with) which are being constructed or refurbished to proper standards, and are being covered by proper detection and protection, you do stand a better chance of surviving such a dreadful occurrence. By all accounts, in a residential tower like Grenfell, the poor residents stood no chance at all.
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softlips
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Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby softlips » 15 Jun 2017, 9:35am

pete75 wrote:
old_windbag wrote: In my life i can't remember that theres ever been a major tower block incident to raise alarm bells about safety. .


Lakanal House 2009 six killed and 20 injured.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/news/london/west/k ... our-years/


And that was ten years after the then Labour housing minister was warned of the risks - according to Labours John Heeley this morning. Successive governments have done nothing.

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bovlomov
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Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby bovlomov » 15 Jun 2017, 9:43am

661-Pete wrote: If landlords do not stump up to provide adequate cover, nothing doing.

Is this where the law should step in, or as recent governments have concluded, should the marketing be the responsibility of the industry?

pete75
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Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby pete75 » 15 Jun 2017, 9:51am

softlips wrote:
pete75 wrote:
old_windbag wrote: In my life i can't remember that theres ever been a major tower block incident to raise alarm bells about safety. .


Lakanal House 2009 six killed and 20 injured.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/news/london/west/k ... our-years/


And that was ten years after the then Labour housing minister was warned of the risks - according to Labours John Heeley this morning. Successive governments have done nothing.


A report from 1999? Which one?

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bovlomov
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Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby bovlomov » 15 Jun 2017, 9:59am

Regarding the advisability of rushing to judgement (and to blame) -

Part of me thinks we should wait for all the facts to be known. Yet it is only in the immediate aftermath of such incidents that governments are propelled into action. We have seen what happens when the public anger subsides. After some months there's a report. Then the minister sets up an inquiry, so that lessons may be learnt. Then, a decade later, nothing is done and no lessons have been learnt.

Fortunately, in this case there is a very long paper trail of concerns, both at local and at national level. Where fingers can be pointed with some degree of certainty, they should be. And where ministers and councillors were warned, it is only fair that they should have to listen to a chorus of 'We told you so!"

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al_yrpal
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Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby al_yrpal » 15 Jun 2017, 10:15am

My favourite Uncle was Charter Mayor of a London Borough. I remember him saying in the 1970s that the worse thing he had done in his long career as a Labour councillor was to put people in tower blocks. He was thoroughly ashamed of this aspect of his career in public service. Blaming a particular political party for this mess won't wash. All political parties are equally responsible over a very long period of time. The culprits are clearly the Architects, Engineers and the management company and even then it would seem that there was some sort of unknown and previously unencountered phenomenon at work that caused the building to go up so quickly. Finding out what went wrong and taking rapid steps to safeguard others who live in these awful structures is the positive thing to do right now, not try to score pathetic political points!

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