Tower Block Disaster

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
pwa
Posts: 11234
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby pwa » 15 May 2018, 2:50pm

softlips wrote:
Flinders wrote:Check out what the rich pay in council tax in that borough, and compare it with yours. A band D house round here, probably worth about 200-250 grand (unfashionable part of the Midlands, not at all wealthy) pays circa £1,640, which is about the same as the largest property in the Kensington and Chelsea pays- properties that would be worth many millions, and which pay circa £1,700. The equivalent top band round here, in contrast, is over £3,000 a year. Something seriously wrong there.


If you look at council tax prices it seems Labour led councils charge more than Conservative led ones. Interestingly though Labour led ones have more cash reserves than Conservative ones.


Comparing areas that tend to vote Labour with those that tend to vote Conservative is not comparing like with like. Conservative led councils tend to be in charge of areas with low levels of social deprivation, where the punters make lower demands on services.

Mike Sales
Posts: 4174
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby Mike Sales » 15 May 2018, 2:57pm

softlips wrote:
If you look at council tax prices it seems Labour led councils charge more than Conservative led ones. Interestingly though Labour led ones have more cash reserves than Conservative ones.


This week we learned a lot about Tory priorities. The situation is a little complicated, but allow me to sum it up: if you’re not a Tory, you’re not a priority.

While the communities and local government secretary, Greg Clark, hands out cash to save his Conservative pals from embarrassment, our care system is in crisis. This year, for the first time, councils will have to add a 2% adult social care precept to council tax bills. The Osborne tax, you might call it.

In the commons, Clark told us that despite austerity there is “generosity” to be found in the Treasury. So much so that the chancellor could find at least £300m as soon as Tory politicians, and their relatives, started to complain about the impact of Tory cuts on local services. Labour analysis suggests 83% of that money will go to Tory councils. That is incredible political bias from a government that seems determined to prove its arrogance. Yes, the government is right to find new money to help councils, but it is absurd to think only Tory councils need help.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/11/300-million-tory-councils-favouritism-cuts-government-adult-social-care

pete75
Posts: 12431
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby pete75 » 15 May 2018, 3:11pm

pwa wrote:
softlips wrote:
Flinders wrote:Check out what the rich pay in council tax in that borough, and compare it with yours. A band D house round here, probably worth about 200-250 grand (unfashionable part of the Midlands, not at all wealthy) pays circa £1,640, which is about the same as the largest property in the Kensington and Chelsea pays- properties that would be worth many millions, and which pay circa £1,700. The equivalent top band round here, in contrast, is over £3,000 a year. Something seriously wrong there.


If you look at council tax prices it seems Labour led councils charge more than Conservative led ones. Interestingly though Labour led ones have more cash reserves than Conservative ones.


Comparing areas that tend to vote Labour with those that tend to vote Conservative is not comparing like with like. Conservative led councils tend to be in charge of areas with low levels of social deprivation, where the punters make lower demands on services.


It may also be that property prices are higher in the Tory areas so a much greater proportion are in bands F, G and H. Comparisons are usually made on the Band D charge - a truer comparison would be the average tax take per property.

reohn2
Posts: 37447
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby reohn2 » 15 May 2018, 3:30pm

Wonderful Tories :roll:
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

reohn2
Posts: 37447
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby reohn2 » 17 May 2018, 11:31pm

Anyone watching QT tonight will have seen the way the Tory government is side stepping and trying to slither out of the cause of this tragedy,Dominic Creep was sickening in his slimeball answers.
12months down the line and nothing happens but politrickians trying to wriggle out of their responsibilities and people still in temporary housing.
It stinks,why am I not surprised?
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

pwa
Posts: 11234
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby pwa » 18 May 2018, 8:02am

reohn2 wrote:Anyone watching QT tonight will have seen the way the Tory government is side stepping and trying to slither out of the cause of this tragedy,Dominic Creep was sickening in his slimeball answers.
12months down the line and nothing happens but politrickians trying to wriggle out of their responsibilities and people still in temporary housing.
It stinks,why am I not surprised?


But how could any council suddenly summon up that amount of new housing? That must be a nightmare problem for whoever has to organise it. I was talking to a lady with a disability a couple of weeks ago. She lives in a first floor flat, with no lift, in the Rhondda, and when she leaves the building she has to then climb about 15 more steps to get to a waiting taxi. She is on crutches and struggles just to get about her flat. She has been on a waiting list for a ground floor flat for two years and doesn't expect the wait to end soon. I don't blame the (Rhondda) council, they just don't have the resources.
Last edited by pwa on 18 May 2018, 9:48am, edited 1 time in total.

Psamathe
Posts: 10779
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby Psamathe » 18 May 2018, 9:43am

pwa wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Anyone watching QT tonight will have seen the way the Tory government is side stepping and trying to slither out of the cause of this tragedy,Dominic Creep was sickening in his slimeball answers.
12months down the line and nothing happens but politrickians trying to wriggle out of their responsibilities and people still in temporary housing.
It stinks,why am I not surprised?


But how could any council suddenly summon up that amount of new housing? That must be a nightmare problem for whoever has to organise it.....

I didn't see Question Time but from right back to the disaster it did strike me that re-housing is a massive disaster. Particularly as many of those needing re-housing wanted to stay in the same area and with many additional constraints.

And whilst those impacted by the tragedy clearly need help and support, I suspect that many of those who've been on waiting lists for years in neighbouring areas are also in desperate need and for them to see their area available housing depleted and their own housing prospects drift further and further away.

Ian

reohn2
Posts: 37447
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby reohn2 » 18 May 2018, 10:03am

pwa wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Anyone watching QT tonight will have seen the way the Tory government is side stepping and trying to slither out of the cause of this tragedy,Dominic Creep was sickening in his slimeball answers.
12months down the line and nothing happens but politrickians trying to wriggle out of their responsibilities and people still in temporary housing.
It stinks,why am I not surprised?


But how could any council suddenly summon up that amount of new housing? That must be a nightmare problem for whoever has to organise it. I was talking to a lady with a disability a couple of weeks ago. She lives in a first floor flat, with no lift, in the Rhondda, and when she leaves the building she has to then climb about 15 more steps to get to a waiting taxi. She is on crutches and struggles just to get about her flat. She has been on a waiting list for a ground floor flat for two years and doesn't expect the wait to end soon. I don't blame the (Rhondda) council, they just don't have the resources.

You're describing to me a governmental failure on a huge scale.
The need for more social and affordable housing under this government which,after nearly a decade in office,has failed to even make a dent in.
Instead of working the country's way out of recession caused by previous similar governmental thinking started by the Thatcher government before it.This one decided to sit tight and cut costs by sweeping austerity measures,we are now reaping the whirlwind of such bad governmental decisions and incompetence,though the rich didn't notice it as it was them who got the most cuts in taxes and the cheap labour market to boot.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

gnvqsos
Posts: 221
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 7:17pm

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby gnvqsos » 18 May 2018, 10:05pm

You're describing to me a governmental failure on a huge scale.
The need for more social and affordable housing under this government which,after nearly a decade in office,has failed to even make a dent in.
Instead of working the country's way out of recession caused by previous similar governmental thinking started by the Thatcher government before it.This one decided to sit tight and cut costs by sweeping austerity measures,we are now reaping the whirlwind of such bad governmental decisions and incompetence,though the rich didn't notice it as it was them who got the most cuts in taxes and the cheap labour market to boot.

Are you suggesting the cuts in police budgets have not had an impact on the rich?Moreover many rich people,such as Phillip Green pay no tax,and hence benefitted little from the cuts.Your tendency to generalise rather undermines your case,and lends itself to easy ridicule,

reohn2
Posts: 37447
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby reohn2 » 18 May 2018, 11:41pm

gnvqsos wrote:
You're describing to me a governmental failure on a huge scale.
The need for more social and affordable housing under this government which,after nearly a decade in office,has failed to even make a dent in.
Instead of working the country's way out of recession caused by previous similar governmental thinking started by the Thatcher government before it.This one decided to sit tight and cut costs by sweeping austerity measures,we are now reaping the whirlwind of such bad governmental decisions and incompetence,though the rich didn't notice it as it was them who got the most cuts in taxes and the cheap labour market to boot.

Are you suggesting the cuts in police budgets have not had an impact on the rich?Moreover many rich people,such as Phillip Green pay no tax,and hence benefitted little from the cuts.Your tendency to generalise rather undermines your case,and lends itself to easy ridicule,

Yes I can appreciate your view point,though don't necessarily agree with it :) :wink: :mrgreen:
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

reohn2
Posts: 37447
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby reohn2 » 21 May 2018, 5:23pm

-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 7167
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby Bonefishblues » 21 May 2018, 9:03pm

Listening to the report earlier I reckon Celotex is in some serious trouble - perhaps not legally, but reputationally and therefore commercially this is turd in a jacuzzi stuff.

OTOH I heard the much derided ex Judge dealing with victims' families with great kindness and sensitivity.

reohn2
Posts: 37447
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby reohn2 » 21 May 2018, 9:26pm

If someone's not jailed for this lot justice doesn't exist in the UK
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 7167
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby Bonefishblues » 21 May 2018, 9:44pm

Let's see. It's still a fair step to criminal culpability I think.

Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 17732
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby Vorpal » 5 Oct 2018, 10:00am

The ban on cladding is good, https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... far-enough
but doesn't do enough to address flammable cladding on existing buildings
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ace-action

The inquiry, however, seems to be making reasonable progress, even if it quite distressful for survivors
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ble-truths
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom