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Re: Tower Block Disaster

Posted: 5 Oct 2018, 11:11am
by thirdcrank
Vorpal wrote:The ban on cladding is good, https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... far-enough
but doesn't do enough to address flammable cladding on existing buildings
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ace-action

The inquiry, however, seems to be making reasonable progress, even if it quite distressful for survivors
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ble-truths


AIUI, there are a lot of people who own flats leasehold, whose landlords are already charging them for things like round-the-clock cover by fire marshals and have said that they will not pay for the cladding to be removed. I don't think any amount of huffing and puffing by the government will change that. This means there are people living in flats which are both unsafe and worthless without expensive repairs, and in many cases will still have a whacking mortgage outstanding.

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Posted: 5 Oct 2018, 12:18pm
by Vorpal
thirdcrank wrote:
Vorpal wrote:The ban on cladding is good, https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... far-enough
but doesn't do enough to address flammable cladding on existing buildings
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ace-action

The inquiry, however, seems to be making reasonable progress, even if it quite distressful for survivors
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ble-truths


AIUI, there are a lot of people who own flats leasehold, whose landlords are already charging them for things like round-the-clock cover by fire marshals and have said that they will not pay for the cladding to be removed. I don't think any amount of huffing and puffing by the government will change that. This means there are people living in flats which are both unsafe and worthless without expensive repairs, and in many cases will still have a whacking mortgage outstanding.

Yeah, that's a pretty good summary of the second article. Although some firms have already taken steps to get cladding replaced at no cost to leaseholders, more haven't than have. :cry:

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Posted: 14 Jun 2019, 6:48pm
by reohn2
2 years on :-
There are still over three hundred blocks in the UK needing the cladding stripping off and replacing
There are 17 families still waiting to be found permanent housing after being promised to be rehouse within weeks of the disaster
The inquiry is still no nearer completion and no one has yet been brought to account.

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Posted: 14 Jun 2019, 9:33pm
by Bonefishblues
To be fair, it was said very early on that in a case of this complexity, criminal liability could take several years to establish.

What does puzzle is the continued fitment of unsafe cladding to many such blocks, which cannot be beyond our capability (employing as we do a Government) to resolve, surely?

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Posted: 15 Jun 2019, 8:35am
by pete75
thirdcrank wrote:
Vorpal wrote:The ban on cladding is good, https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... far-enough
but doesn't do enough to address flammable cladding on existing buildings
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ace-action

The inquiry, however, seems to be making reasonable progress, even if it quite distressful for survivors
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ble-truths


AIUI, there are a lot of people who own flats leasehold, whose landlords are already charging them for things like round-the-clock cover by fire marshals and have said that they will not pay for the cladding to be removed. I don't think any amount of huffing and puffing by the government will change that. This means there are people living in flats which are both unsafe and worthless without expensive repairs, and in many cases will still have a whacking mortgage outstanding.


I suppose it depends on the terms of the lease. In many cases the leaseholders are responsible for the costs of replacing the cladding. If they don't want to pay they'll just have to accept the risk.

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Posted: 16 Jun 2019, 8:22am
by francovendee
reohn2 wrote:2 years on :-
There are still over three hundred blocks in the UK needing the cladding stripping off and replacing
There are 17 families still waiting to be found permanent housing after being promised to be rehouse within weeks of the disaster
The inquiry is still no nearer completion and no one has yet been brought to account.


I'm afraid that Brexit and the Tory leadership has pushed terrible tragedies like this to the inside pages.
It would be interesting to interview people from the poorer side of Kensington and Chelsea and ask have things improved when dealing with the council on housing.
I lived in the Borough for 10 years in the 60's and doubt there's any change

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Posted: 16 Jun 2019, 8:29am
by Mike Sales
francovendee wrote:
I'm afraid that Brexit and the Tory leadership has pushed terrible tragedies like this to the inside pages.
It would be interesting to interview people from the poorer side of Kensington and Chelsea and ask have things improved when dealing with the council on housing.
I lived in the Borough for 10 years in the 60's and doubt there's any change


I see that the RBKC has refused to back a cycle lane.

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Posted: 16 Jun 2019, 8:31am
by reohn2
pete75 wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:
Vorpal wrote:The ban on cladding is good, https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... far-enough
but doesn't do enough to address flammable cladding on existing buildings
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ace-action

The inquiry, however, seems to be making reasonable progress, even if it quite distressful for survivors
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ble-truths


AIUI, there are a lot of people who own flats leasehold, whose landlords are already charging them for things like round-the-clock cover by fire marshals and have said that they will not pay for the cladding to be removed. I don't think any amount of huffing and puffing by the government will change that. This means there are people living in flats which are both unsafe and worthless without expensive repairs, and in many cases will still have a whacking mortgage outstanding.


I suppose it depends on the terms of the lease. In many cases the leaseholders are responsible for the costs of replacing the cladding. If they don't want to pay they'll just have to accept the risk.

i believe the people who own such apartments won a court case in Manchester too make the builders pay for the work.

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Posted: 16 Jun 2019, 10:12am
by pete75
reohn2 wrote:
pete75 wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:
AIUI, there are a lot of people who own flats leasehold, whose landlords are already charging them for things like round-the-clock cover by fire marshals and have said that they will not pay for the cladding to be removed. I don't think any amount of huffing and puffing by the government will change that. This means there are people living in flats which are both unsafe and worthless without expensive repairs, and in many cases will still have a whacking mortgage outstanding.


I suppose it depends on the terms of the lease. In many cases the leaseholders are responsible for the costs of replacing the cladding. If they don't want to pay they'll just have to accept the risk.

i believe the people who own such apartments won a court case in Manchester too make the builders pay for the work.


This? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... r-47417706 No the leasholders lost but the developers and freehold owners have decided to setup a fund to pay for the work.
At the tribunal which decided the leaseholders should pay the freeholders Pemberstone said it had taken the case to tribunal because while it could "in theory" have tried to seek agreement with leaseholders, it would have been "exceptionally difficult" to reach a unanimous agreement, as about 75% of them did not live in the blocks and some were based abroad.

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Posted: 16 Jun 2019, 12:45pm
by reohn2
pete75 wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
pete75 wrote:
I suppose it depends on the terms of the lease. In many cases the leaseholders are responsible for the costs of replacing the cladding. If they don't want to pay they'll just have to accept the risk.

i believe the people who own such apartments won a court case in Manchester too make the builders pay for the work.


This? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... r-47417706 No the leasholders lost but the developers and freehold owners have decided to setup a fund to pay for the work.
At the tribunal which decided the leaseholders should pay the freeholders Pemberstone said it had taken the case to tribunal because while it could "in theory" have tried to seek agreement with leaseholders, it would have been "exceptionally difficult" to reach a unanimous agreement, as about 75% of them did not live in the blocks and some were based abroad.

Good work finding the link,I was going off what I'd heard on local news a few months ago.It seems there's always wriggle room for people who have the money to pay for the best lawyers :?

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Posted: 16 Jun 2019, 2:19pm
by pete75
reohn2 wrote:
pete75 wrote:
reohn2 wrote:i believe the people who own such apartments won a court case in Manchester too make the builders pay for the work.


This? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... r-47417706 No the leasholders lost but the developers and freehold owners have decided to setup a fund to pay for the work.
At the tribunal which decided the leaseholders should pay the freeholders Pemberstone said it had taken the case to tribunal because while it could "in theory" have tried to seek agreement with leaseholders, it would have been "exceptionally difficult" to reach a unanimous agreement, as about 75% of them did not live in the blocks and some were based abroad.

Good work finding the link,I was going off what I'd heard on local news a few months ago.It seems there's always wriggle room for people who have the money to pay for the best lawyers :?


I don't think it's a case of quality of lawyers but what the terms of the lease are. Leaseholders are generally responsible for external repairs in the same way that home owners are. It seems that 75% of the leaseholders don't live in that tower block presumably having bought the flats to let. Personally I've little or no sympathy for people who buy a property to rent out on a commercial basis and then find they need to spend money on it. It seems the government is now setting up a fund to remove this cladding
https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/news/ne ... ocks-61350
If they're aware of the risks yet not prepared to stump up the cash themselves why should the taxpayer pay to benefit private landlords. Certainly they should be barred from letting the property while the unsafe cladding is in situ.

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Posted: 16 Jun 2019, 2:58pm
by reohn2
pete75 wrote:
If they're aware of the risks yet not prepared to stump up the cash themselves why should the taxpayer pay to benefit private landlords. Certainly they should be barred from letting the property while the unsafe cladding is in situ.

I totally agree.
Capitalism in action.........

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Posted: 1 Nov 2019, 5:38pm
by reohn2
Two and half years after the disaster and money promised by government for safety mesures such as sprinklers and replacing of flammable cladding still not fitted or replaced to council owned highrise tower blocks.
Landlords and owners of privately owned tower blocks not made to fit sprinklers and replace cladding.

How long will the people living in those tower blocks have to wait.

Has the LFB now been suppied with sufficient equipement to deal with another such fire should it happen again?

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Posted: 2 Nov 2019, 8:26am
by francovendee
reohn2 wrote:Two and half years after the disaster and money promised by government for safety mesures such as sprinklers and replacing of flammable cladding still not fitted or replaced to council owned highrise tower blocks.
Landlords and owners of privately owned tower blocks not made to fit sprinklers and replace cladding.

How long will the people living in those tower blocks have to wait.

Has the LFB now been suppied with sufficient equipement to deal with another such fire should it happen again?

Did you expect anything different under a Tory Government. All fine words but no action.
The inquiry has looked at the role of the LFB and I fear that they may end up being scapegoats and the real causes of the fire, cost cutting, bad management and a disregard for poor people in the borough, glossed over. :(

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Posted: 2 Nov 2019, 8:29am
by reohn2
francovendee wrote:Did you expect anything different under a Tory Government. All fine words but no action.

Nope.

The inquiry has looked at the role of the LFB and I fear that they may end up being scapegoats and the real causes of the fire, cost cutting, bad management and a disregard for poor people in the borough, glossed over. :(

That's my fear too.