Tower Block Disaster

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reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Grenfell

Postby reohn2 » 29 Jan 2020, 5:43pm

pwa wrote:I am less interested in who is to blame, and more interested in the various decision making processes the led to a tower block being encased in a combustible material. You would have thought that the first question to be asked of any prospective cladding would be "Will it burn?", and that an answer in the affirmative would consign it to the bin. Because tower blocks around the UK have similar cladding the problem must originate high up, and possibly in Government.

Damn right it originates high up,the very top of high up!
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Vorpal
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Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby Vorpal » 29 Jan 2020, 7:31pm

There is an analysis method often used after a disaster of this magnitude called Management Oversight and Risk Tree (MORT). Tha main reason such an analysis method exists is that some of the causes and contributing factors in a complex incident arise from organisational issues.
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Bonefishblues
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Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby Bonefishblues » 29 Jan 2020, 7:45pm

100%JR wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:You are implying a conspiracy of some proportion.

If however, someone knowingly clad that building in flammable materials, or was negligent in failing to exercise their duty of care, then there's no bus big enough, or heavy enough to throw them underneath. I reckon that the public can readily understand the two different scenarios.


Well,well,well........

Here is my complete post, which in turn was a response to your assertion that I was, IIRC, throwing the LFB under a bus:
Bonefishblues wrote:You are implying a conspiracy of some proportion.

Here's my view, hugely condensed.

Nobody is criticising the ordinary fire fighters, their commitment or their bravery. What is being examined is an adherence to an obviously failed policy for far too long, way beyond the point at which it should have been screamingly obvious that it wasn't going to keep people safe - because it already wasn't.

When the senior officer appears at an Enquiry and makes statements such as those, it does raise questions as to what the reason is for that. These are seasoned, experienced, brave people, at least when they were active firefighters. Their mission was first and foremost to protect life, they're not fools, clearly, so there's some other dynamic at play that's not only worth examining, it must be examined. It's absolutely not about throwing anyone under a bus, but it's a statement of fact that many more people died than should have done on that night.

If however, someone knowingly clad that building in flammable materials, or was negligent in failing to exercise their duty of care, then there's no bus big enough, or heavy enough to throw them underneath. I reckon that the public can readily understand the two different scenarios.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 7396
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby Bonefishblues » 29 Jan 2020, 7:46pm

Vorpal wrote:There is an analysis method often used after a disaster of this magnitude called Management Oversight and Risk Tree (MORT). Tha main reason such an analysis method exists is that some of the causes and contributing factors in a complex incident arise from organisational issues.

...and often multiple issues coinciding, I guess.

reohn2
Posts: 37925
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Tower Block Disaster

Postby reohn2 » 29 Jan 2020, 9:13pm

The problems of this type of cladding were well known in high rise apartment blocks,along with UPVc window frames melting in fires,well before Grenfell.
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I cycle therefore I am.