Corbyn to be PM within 6 months?

[pete75]

therefore an abortion can never be murder.

That is merely the legal ruling in one particular country, not a definition of the word murder.

On the other hand the definition of contraception is for something which must have happened before abortion can even be possible.

So getting semantic squabbles out of the way. Why is it OK at 23 weeks and 6 days but not at 24 weeks and 1 day, when we cant even be that accurate about the age anyway? Only conception and birth are clear cut off points. Yet it is obvious to everybody that there is a continuous development of a living creature from one of those points to the other.

Because 24 weeks is what the law states. Murder is a legal concept and is just one sort of unlawful killing. In any one country it is what is defined by the law in that country.

[reohn2]

In the last few posts about abortion,which is way off topic BTW,has been men debating an issue that's non of their concern IMO

[meic]

Only within the power of that legal framework.

People from outside that country are free to call state sanctioned killings murder.
A fact doesnt cease to be a fact because of where you are viewing it from. However if it does depend on the laws in a country, then as we are discussing the issue in NI their laws apply!

[pete75]

In the last few posts about abortion,which is way off topic BTW,has been men debating an issue that's non of their concern IMO

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thing you were one of the first or maybe even the first to mention abortion in this thread.

[meic]

In the last few posts about abortion,which is way off topic BTW,has been men debating an issue that's non of their concern IMO

Why are only females aborted?
Obviously the victims of abortion are not here to speak for themselves, so everybody else has an equal responsibility to be their advocates.

[reohn2]

In the last few posts about abortion,which is way off topic BTW,has been men debating an issue that's non of their concern IMO

Why are only females aborted?
Obviously the victims of abortion are not here to speak for themselves, so everybody else has an equal responsibility to be their advocates.

But it's the woman who has the responsibility of carrying,giving birth and most of the initial if not all the care of the child when it's born be it male of female.
This isn't an attempt for men to abdicate blame more for women to have full control of what's happening inside them and control of how looking after an unwanted child once born would affect their lives.

[pete75]

This isn't an attempt for men to abdicate blame more for women to have full control of what's happening inside them and control of how looking after an unwanted child once born would affect their lives.

Exactly.

[reohn2]

In the last few posts about abortion,which is way off topic BTW,has been men debating an issue that's non of their concern IMO

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thing you were one of the first or maybe even the first to mention abortion in this thread.

I may have been(haven't checked)but anti abortion was one in a list of the DUP'S policies,and it was to show how out of step they are with modern thought.

[landsurfer]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thing you were one of the first or maybe even the first to mention abortion in this thread.

I may have been(haven't checked)but anti abortion was one in a list of the DUP'S policies,to show how out of step they are with modern thought.[/quote]

You where...
Out of step with whose modern thought ?
Just yours.
Surely just disagreeing with you does not make a poster automatically wrong ?

Or does it ?

[meic]

As are Sinn Fein, so that makes over 90% of NIs MPs elected on that position.

Which is the "higher principle" democracy, devolution or abortion?

Modernity, of course, is transient.

[reohn2]

Out of step with whose modern thought ?
Just yours.

I think you'll find that's not the case,otherwise there'd be no abortions performed in the UK,and Irish women wouldn't be coming to the UK for abortions.
EDIT:- or would you have young women paying back street abortionists as it was prior to the abortion act,or young women not knowing where to turn when they became pregnant,and being stigmatised by religious heirachy labelling them as 'sinners' and unclean.
There children being taken from them at birth and put into homes and also being made to feel unclean because they were born out of wedlock.
The Christian church both protestant and RC has a lot to answer for,non worse than in Ireland as a whole,for the way it's treated women and still does!

Surely just disagreeing with you does not make a poster automatically wrong ?

Or does it ?

Did I say it did?

[reohn2]

As are Sinn Fein, so that makes over 90% of NIs MPs elected on that position.

But Sinn Fein aren't the one's in control of the UK government,seeing as they refuse to take their seats in the H of P.

Which is the "higher principle" democracy, devolution or abortion?

Democracy.
But,hypothetically,what if the DUP insisted for them to make a deal with the Tories one of there conditions was the same abortion laws as NI be implemented in the UK,and the Tories agreed?
Democracy?

Modernity, of course, is transient.

It can also be progressive.

Lets not lose sight of the rabbit,we are discussing UK politics,of which NI is only part of it,though presently it holds more power than it's 10 seats due to the weakness of a Tory government who'll do practically anything to hold on to power.

[meic]

Well, some really have lost sight of the rabbit.
The abortion laws are a devolved issue, sorted out in Stormont and not part of the UK government's jurisdiction. The DUP-Tory arrangement is in no way affected by Stormont's devolved powers wrt abortion.
Except for those trying to drag it up to disenfranchise the people of NI, by asserting it disqualifies their MPs from participating in the UK government. DUP are in effect the "Tories" of NI party, it is only natural that they can stand alongside their English, Scottish and (sadly) Welsh MPs in a Tory Government.

[reohn2]

Well, some really have lost sight of the rabbit.
The abortion laws are a devolved issue, sorted out in Stormont and not part of the UK government's jurisdiction. The DUP-Tory arrangement is in no way affected by Stormont's devolved powers wrt abortion.
Except for those trying to drag it up to disenfranchise the people of NI, by asserting it disqualifies their MPs from participating in the UK government. DUP are in effect the "Tories" of NI party, it is only natural that they can stand alongside their English, Scottish and (sadly) Welsh MPs in a Tory Government.

I'm in no way disenfranchising the people of NI,but I do have problems with 10 NI MPs wagging the rest of the UK political dog and setting out conditions on a political party that hasnt a clear mandate from the UK electorate .
The mention of abortion was by way of looking at the mindset of such a political party as the DUP in relation to the UK.

[al_yrpal]

Meanwhile the Queen's speech passes and Corbyn sacks more Ministers as Labours Brexit chaos continues...

Al